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Cover Canceled Two Days Before The Date Of Issue???

 
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Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 05/24/2013   01:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add agustanz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have bought a cover that is said to be a cover that was cancelled two days before the date of issue of the stamp.
Cover has 4 6 09 cancel and the stamp was issued on 6 6 09.

IS it real? How would it have happened? Is this sort of thing common??

The auction description reads like this.... in Italian...

"Moto italiane Gilera lettera del 04/06/2009 in data anticipata (emesso 06/06/2009).Oggetto postale molto bello, ottimamente conservato ed in perfetta tariffa di €. 0,60. Annullo manuale del CMP di Firenze (particolare) e barrette di invio."

translated badly reads....

"Italian motorcycle Gilera 6/4/2009 letter in early date (6/6/2009 issued).Post object very nice, well-preserved and perfectly € fee. 0.60. CMP manual Cancellation of Florence (detail) and fingers."

I don't know what a CMP manual cancellation means??

Regards
Gavin

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I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/

Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 05/24/2013   06:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agustanz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Took bit of googling in Italian but I found some info on CMP.
"Centro di Meccanizzazione Postale"

Translated to English...

"A Postal Mechanization Centre, often abbreviated CMP, is a place where large quantities of correspondence sorted by Poste italiane."

To my mind that makes it more likely to be a genuine postally used cover and not something faked, or created by a postal worker at a small post office.

I found some interesting reading to be had on the net about "first use covers"

Regards
Gavin
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I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 05/24/2013   10:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interestingly, the postmark on the stamp itself appears to read *4 *5 09. But maybe it looks like a "5" because of underinking?
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Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 05/24/2013   5:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agustanz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Close up of cancels....

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I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/
Edited by agustanz - 05/24/2013 5:11 pm
Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 05/24/2013   5:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agustanz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thinking about it... you bring up an interesting point about underinking of the cancel... if I was to fake a cover then I would make sure that the cancel was nice and clear... I think this also points at it being a real cover.

By "real cover" I mean something that happened by mistake and not on purpose.

The cover is on it's way from Italy at the moment and when it arrives I will do a close examination of it and maybe a better close scan.

I think it's a lovely addition to my collection and adds something a but different. I like odd things like that. :)

Regards
Gavin
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I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4092 Posts
Posted 05/25/2013   10:55 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are two ways of covers getting postmarked before the Official first day of issue. Someone may make a mistake in setting the date OR a local PO may mistakenly release the stamps early.
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts
Posted 05/29/2013   12:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Darkoath to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"There are two ways of covers getting postmarked before the Official first day of issue. Someone may make a mistake in setting the date OR a local PO may mistakenly release the stamps early."

How often does this happen? I have not seen any yet on first day covers. I wonder how often it happens in the US?

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Valued Member
United States
82 Posts
Posted 05/29/2013   1:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Conker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is it possible that the 4/6/09 on the cover (which in European use is 4th June 2009) is being compared with a 6/6/09 North American source for the issue date (June 6, 2009)?
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United States
5894 Posts
Posted 05/29/2013   2:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think Conker is onto something there.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7075 Posts
Posted 05/29/2013   2:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think Gavin converted the European form of dd/mm/yyyy to mm/dd/yyyy when he added the translation. I think the translation still holds to the two-days-early theory. Otherwise, we'd be talking two months early...

Or have I totally confused myself?
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Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 05/29/2013   6:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agustanz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That was just the translator doing that, I hadn't noticed it changed it around.

It's definitely just two days early. :)
Regards
Gavin
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I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/
Edited by agustanz - 05/29/2013 6:48 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4092 Posts
Posted 06/01/2013   8:56 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Darkoath - in the US, almost every issue in the last number of years have covers that are dated before the official date of issue (usually due to some PO selling them before they are supposed to)
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Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 06/01/2013   9:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agustanz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I just realised that I have another cover here with an early postmark.
I once had a small collection of Pigeon Post items, and I still have the remains here. Around 1997 the New Zealand PO issued a set of triangle Pigeon post stamps. They also issued two special event sheets with those stamps on them that were issued on the dates of the events..... will, someone at the PO dated a bunch of FDC for the sheet with the earlier date of the stamp issue. And I have one here somewhere... must dig it out and sell it to put the money into the core collection of Italian motorcycle stamp items!
regards
Gavin
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/
Valued Member
New Zealand
331 Posts
Posted 06/27/2013   07:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agustanz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Better scans of the cancels...



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I collect "Any philatelic material that depicts a motorcycle, or part thereof, or name of manufacturer, where the make of motorcycle is recognizable as being of ITALIAN ORIGIN."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/593463...28141992497/
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