Ugh... What Is This New Ship With Ebay Crap? Brutal For CDN

Well this sucks... "Global Shipping Program" seems to be starting to infect stamp auctions on ebay, but with me just coming back to ebay for Christmas shopping on larger items, I am noticing all kinds of auctions that actually ship through ebay and CHARGE ME automatically for duty and brokerage for auctions out of the US (I am in Canada). Give me a break... if they just shipped with USPS, there's no brokerage fees and VERY (and I mean EXTREMELY) rarely is there any duty. Please Lord I hope this doesn't become a fad where the majority of sellers in the US use ebay to ship their stuff, I will ALWAYS skip those auctions.

Here's an example of what I mean:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-12-5...aptops_Nov05

If you're in Canada and you're logged in, you'll notice this:




And just above that it says:




Are they absolutely INSANE?! No WAY would I touch ANY auction that forces me to do this and I hope you guys that sell on ebay to international locations know you are losing business by doing this. Granted this is a high priced example, but I bought a small microscope set for my daughter and one of these ebay shipping center auctions wanted to charge me 20% on the import charges.

OK, done ranting...

Dan

Dan, I can understand. I would be upset too. I've been warning people about the GSP program for awhile. A number of sellers don't even realized they even "signed" up for it, but did so when they "agreed" to a user agreement update. Seller's should be able to opt out of it, but ebay doesn't make it easy.

For stamps and covers, the GSP is definitely not needed and really not needed by anyone who knows how to mail something at the post office.

Hopefully, ebay doesn't make it mandatory in the future or I'll drop them as a sales venue.

I think by law Canada wants to charge custom fees for items above $20?
IF the case is that most of the time you can get something through Canadian customs without paying this fee than this wouldn't really be an ebay issue. It could be that all online commerce will come under more and more pressure to collect taxes and custom fee and that ebay has configured GSP for that situation. If you had been in charge with implementing a new GSP program at ebay you would have had two choices, either make it comply with existing import/customs laws or allow it to ignore the rules the various countries have in place.

I don't mean to defend ebay, I have no stock in their company and they frustrate me often too. But if the current situation is that many imported purchases are simply bypassing customs fees then an online vender can hardly be faulted for offering a shipping program that automatically calculates the correct cost. Of course the ebay GSP should be aware of those items which are 'duty free', does anyone know if this is the case?
don

Hi Don,

There are a TON of reasons why this is wrong and why it is riddled with issues that ebay has abolsutely no business sticking their noses in.

Import duties are normally on items of $60 and over, regardless of whether or not it is a gift. It is the job of customs canada to determine if there is duty or not, and the carrier to charge the customer, NOT ebay. Points to note:

1. ebay is charging both duty AND brokerage fees. There are NO BROKERAGE FEES with USPS.
2. There is NO DUTY on items made in the USA due to the NAFTA agreement. ebay is charging duty on EVERYTHING that runs through GSP, including items made in the USA.
3. By charging me fees at the point of purchase instead of by the carrier directly, I am getting hit with US to CDN currency fees that PayPal charges me, fees that I would NOT pay otherwise.
4. The GSP process doubles shipping time of goods.
5. There is no audit trail or validation system for the GSP fees, you have to take ebay's word for what they are charging you. I guarantee you they have brought in their own brokers on payroll, so you are basically paying extra fees to ebay to broker your package.
6. At what point will they charge us HST like they do at the border? Maybe they are already, I can't tell as point 5 shows there is no breakdown or invoice of any kind, they are just calling them "import fees".

Again, it is not up to the vendor to determine or charge duty or taxes or brokerage fees, that is up to the brokerage company and Customs Canada. And again, due to NAFTA, if it is made in Canada, the USA or Mexico, there is NO DUTY, but ebay seems ignores that - most companies don't even know this simple fact (It's been like this since the early 90s). I went to buy a Hot Tub from an online site that was charging me $350 in duty for a tub made in the USA. I called them up and asked why they were charging me duty on an item made in the USA and the woman had no idea what I was talking about and "That's just how the system works sir, you have to pay it". So basically the company was pocketing that money, pretty much exactly what ebay will do/is doing.

Should ebay go full blanket on this process, I will buy exclusively from forum members and contacts. When I was in the science fiction collectibles market and shipped several hundred packages a year and bought quite a bit, I used ebay perhaps 5 times a year, the rest was off my site or on forums. For now, I just won't buy from anyone using GSP, sorry.

Dan

Good day Dan!
I feel your pain and concur with much of what you say. I think the brokerage fee is one that UPS, FedEx, Pitney-Bowes and ebay share. I certainly agree that low value items, and those things that are covered as duty free (under NAFTA or any other customs regulations), should be accounted for in the GSP.

Under NAFTA not everything qualifies as duty free, some are just reduced rates. I poked around the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States regulations and it does appear that philatelic items would be duty free; they fall under section 9704.00.00 "Postage or revenuestamps, stamp-postmarks, first-day covers, postal stationery (stamped paper) and the like, used or unused". Of course you need to have all the proper paper work including a 'certificate of origin'.

I just don't understand how much of the frustration is about ebay vs. the international shipping costs/regulations. Having previously lived in Massena NY (on the St. Lawrence river) I saw how many people would dodge customs fees; if they didn't get stopped/searched they didn't have to pay fees no matter what the laws were. The digital equivalent now occurs when international buyers ask the sellers to mark the purchase as a gift.

Frankly ebay's policies were already quite restrictive towards international shipping. As most of us know shipping internationally using the most cost effective methods (First Class mail) means the seller have to take a large risk. ebay policies already contained a signature requirement and for obvious logistical reasons this substantially drives up the international shipping costs.

Just as obvious is that ebay is a 800 pound gorilla who can pretty much do what they like. But my opinion is that they would rather see no customs fees and easier international shipping; this would increase their bottom line much more than trying to make international shipping a stand-alone profit center. I do think that ebay does have a strong profit motivated agenda; but it is all about decreasing their cost per transaction* and increasing the average price of the item sold. In other words, their policies will continue to evolve towards compelling higher dollar transactions in general.
Regards,
Don

* Keep in mind that EBays cost per transaction is basically the same for a listing whether it is a $2 item or a $200 item. The cost for maintaining the servers, networks, help desk, issue resolution, etc. is the same for any listing.

Dan,
From what I've read on the ebay forums, many other buyers AND sellers are with you. The GSP is a downright mess and seen as a money grab by ebay AND Pitney Bowes. PB is also involved with this boondoggle. Again some sellers were roped into the program by mindlessly clicking on user agreement updates or enticed by ebay's claims of safe international shipping which is a lark. There never was a problem with shipping to the Canada to begin with, but those who are weary of international shipping maybe thought it was a good idea. Luckily for stamps and sellers of most small and light items, GSP is not required.
Will

@51studebaker - Well that's just it, you know there is NO WAY that ebay planned, or executed GSP without profit being front and center in the equation. Brokerage fees are incurred by the the customs broke, NOT by UPS or FedEx etc. Typically when you ship international via anyone aside from USPS, shippers tend to use the default brokers used by UPS BUT other shipper slike myself used our own brokers that were cheaper. When you ship with UPS and FedEx etc there are parts of the commercial invoice paperwork where you can specify your broker. So this is why I suspect that ebay is not using the default brokers, they have hired their own in-house on salary.

And you're right about the exceptions, but the vast majority of items like clothing, electronics, stamps, artwork and statues etc are duty free. Marking an item as gift means absolutely nothing if the value is over $60, I confirmed this with Customs Canada and several of my shipping brokers. It's a common myth that simply writing gift on a package of any value will bypass the taxes, that's why I never bother asking any seller to write gift on the shipping paperwork. To avoid taxes properly for a legitimate reason, there is all kinds of spcial paperwork you have to fill out. A good example would be when I send out one of my watches out for servicing. I have all kinds of paperwork I have to fill out to make sure that when it comes back to me from the watchmaker (not in Canada) that I don't end up paying duty and taxes on the insured/declared value.

I believe their model is primarily how to increase PROFIT per transaction, with how to reduce cost per transaction as secondary as this has been optimized quite thoroughly and there's only so much you can do. The GSP is a HUGE opportunity to bring in their own shipping and brokerage costs that go straight to them as well as kickbacks from the third party couriers involved. Not to mention the extra revenue generated by the 2% or so added percentage PayPal adds to converting USD to CDN for those using CDN bank accounts or credit cards to pay for USD auctions - which now includes those extra fees.

And again a big issue to me is the complete lack of transparency or accountability. What happens if there's an error in the charges or if they were overestimated or simply not charged by customs? Do I get that money back? I won't hold my breath ;)

Dan

@Battlestamps - Is GSP actually required for a certain size item??? I don't think it's actually mandatory is it?! That would be a disaster...

Anyhow, I'm already trying to move my buying to the forums as much as possible, I now maintain a want list in the buy and sell area of this forum.

Dan,
I don't know about size requirements or limits, but have seen posts on the ebay Forums that GSP is not used for certain catagories like antiques and I think stamps is also exempt. Have you seen any actually stamp listings on ebay with GSP? The GSP is not mandatory, but like I wrote earlier some sellers were "enrolled" into it by clicking on user agreement updates and might not even realize it. One would have to view their site preferences to check to see if it is on or off. I wouldn't give up on ebay stamp sellers as I'm sure as a lot we're not for the GSP program and will fight against it. It has no place in the philatelic world.

For those who want to check to see if if the Global Shipping Program option is turned on or off:
1. Go to "My ebay"
2. Click on "Account" tab
3. Click in "Site preferences" on left side
4. Click on "Shipping preferences" - Global Shipping Program is in that list.
5. If "On" click edit to turn it off, but from what I've read it might take up to 72 hours to switch over.

Note: If you use Turbo Lister, just make sure not to check the box for the GSP.

Yes, I have definitely seen GSP stamp auctions, that's actually what pushed me over the edge and I started this thread lol!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canada-Stam...em2586c14fe3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canada-Quee...em417a28c094 ($71.00 in duty right there... absurd)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canada-Stam...em417a0301a0 ($54)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANADA-72-X...em3364a3470d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-00-Face...em53f1e9abe7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canada-1855...em4d11b74770

There has been some discussion (read on ecommercebytes website) that ebay is now talking about allowing sellers to opt into GSP for selected countries only.

I think maybe they are starting to see that Canadian buyers are avoiding the GSP enrolled sellers. They mention Canada as an example of a country that can be selected OUT of the GSP if a seller is already enrolled.

Perhaps GSP might make some sense shipping to countries with a poor average for "lost items", but I also agree it is a hidden money grab by ebay.

As I'm in the U.S., I can't tell if a listing is in the GSP or not. Some of those sellers are fairly new and probably didn't know any better. Also I think new accounts are automatically enrolled. Others might have been duped into it. Best thing to do if there's a listing you're really interested is to ask the seller if they know that GSP is on and if they are willing to turn it off for you. Overall, I didn't think items mailed at the letter rate was eligible, but who knows as ebay isn't forthcoming about much.

Another problem I've read about the GSP program - no combined invoices. It really is not a well thought out plan and vastly unneeded. eEbay is getting to be too controlling over time. I'm just waiting for the day I would have an ebay representative standing over my shoulder telling what I can or cannot do. It's bad enough that some sellers are reporting that their listings are been "throttled" with restricted visibility on the site. It's definitely not an even playing field for sellers or buyers alike.

If duty is being collected on ineligible items, then where is the giant class action lawsuit? Some lawyer is going to make a killing.