Unitrade Editor

Wert if you look at the front of the book it lists several dealers who are on the pricing committee. This group supposedly refers to actual dealer selling prices where possible to determine CV's. ( ebay is not considered)

The problem I see is that at least one of the dealers on the committee sells most of his Canada stock at substantial discounts from CV, so how does that work? Where does he get his data to contribute to the CV prices?

And who are these other dealers selling common F grade material at full catalogue value?

I don't understand where the committee gets their data to determine CV.

JR1960:

As you say, your stamps fall before the 1981 date mentioned in Unitrade. I believe the reason that Unitrade uses the 1981 date is because stamps after this date are much harder to find with nice CDS cancels. Before that date, CDS cancels are more common.

Remember that Unitrade is just trying to give guidelines on pricing.

The actual price you get will depend on several factors, including: quality/condition of stamp, rarity/demand for stamp, CDS cancel, rarity/demand for that cancel, date of cancel (in period means during the time that rate was in effect - can be somewhat flexible). If there is no date visible on the CDS, you are still in VF category as many collectors like nice corner cancels.

It is best not to try and over-think this. In the end it comes down to supply and demand.

Your stamps would be priced at the F used price individually, however they are in multiples (harder to get - may be collectors looking for that), in a block with the full CDS (in period it looks like), it would be F used price plus a premium.

That premium will depend on what the buyer is willing to pay. If you sold one of these as a large multiple, I doubt you would get premium price (x the multple), but who knows for sure? The market fluctuates and the only way to know the price of your items is to try and sell them.

Certainly they have value with nice (in-period) CDS cancels. That value may increase over time.

But...And this is a BIG BUT...Lets say my Scott #137 that only had 25,000 pairs issued as per Unitrade..Now, the problem I see in setting any type of pricing is survivability...Lets say (This is far fetched) there are only 500 left in existence and should that not affect greatly the price of that stamp..And if there are at least 20,000 left, that to would affect the price..How can anyone make a reasonable assumption as to what a stamp is worth..??

wert, the value of any stamp comes down to supply and demand.

The actual surviving supply may not be known (and in many cases is not), however if many collectors are looking for the same thing and having a hard time finding it, then when it comes up for sale, it will sell quickly.

If the sale is an auction, then the buyers will determine its value at that time. That is how the value of certain items has been determined over time; a value that often will change.

3Dadeo, your theory about 1981 may be true but the problem is that used stamps prior to 1981 are still only listed with a Fine grade. So if I were to list these for sale, I would not be able to list a CV. I could use the Fine CV, but that would be misleading.

To make my point I could also show some post-1981 stamps with mathematical centering and nice CDS cancels that are not part of se-tenant blocks etc., and the question would remain: what is their CV?

I know Robin says the F grade is used for modern material because this is the most common grade in which one is likely to find those stamps. However, if you're going to pick only one grade to list, I would publish the grade that is most commonly bought & sold. In the case of modern used, I believe the vast majority of single items bought/sold are VF. Nobody buys single copies of modern stamps with poor cancels - it's the VF stuff with CDS's that sells.

I know this is all theoretical; as you say the value of any stamp comes down to supply and demand. For me it is the principle of it. If Unitrade is going to go through the trouble of establishing a pricing committee that painstakingly considers actual selling prices and publishes them yearly, and establish these very specific pricing premium guidelines, then I think we should be able to ask questions like these without having to defer to the "It's all supply and demand anyway" statement.

JR1960: I think any catalog can only go so far. Perhaps someone else will give their opinion on this.

As far as selling used modern stamps, I would probably not put a CV with it, or if I did, I would also mention that Unitrade considers a premium for X stamp (if applicable, and say why), but go no farther than that, because there are too many factors (see my previous post) to know what that premium would be in any specific case.

Wow guys! We are talking about used stamps, that can be bought for 60-70% of face value in bulk at any auction in MNHVF for use as common postage. What value do you really think they would have used? There is a reason why, they have a price for fine only. Dealers sell this stuff, with the hope that you either will collect better material in future, or at least come to them to purchase the higher used values. Take these stamps to any dealer, and see if he gives you anything more than a penny or two or let alone even look at them. Not trying to be antagonistic, but being realistic of the matter. The only thing of value in the current Elizabethian era of stamps, are true errors. Just check out Saskatoon Stamps/City Stamp Montreal/Maresch Auctions and Eastern Auctions. They sell the true current items that have any value.

fantail, it's obvious that modern used stamps are not your area of expertise. I sell many, and some at good prices.

Buying bulk lots at less than face value for modern Elizabethan mint is unrelated.

Try to find an in-period CDS cancel on some of these modern stamps, and you will see the difference. Many people do collect these and pay more than face value, depending on the other factors mentioned.

Fantail I agree with 3Dadeo, I collect almost exclusively in used and it completely depends on the stamp and the era. Mint from the 70's and 80's is often worth 70% of FV, but those same stamps with nice town cancels can go for 2-10x face. And try to find stamps from the last 10 years with nice town cancels, it is quite a challenge, and it is not unusual to pay more that face for them (and if they are priced lower they are usually snapped up by the first person who sees them).

I was reading this old thread and thought I'd make my first post here.I have been using Darnell,Scotts,Holmes and Unitrade.I have some problems aith them all.I am a confirmed fly-specker but run into constant plate varieties all the time.Many of them are not listed anywhere in any catalog.Want an example ?? I have been studying the Admirals for just a short time and already have found re-drawn spandrells in the fifty cent.Check yours but remember I told you to look not THE catalog.It disappoints me that a specialized catalog lacks information that a novice like me can see myself.Still Unitrade is the best available out there and I use it every day.
FROG

As far as CV maybe too much is made of that.There is not one catalog out there that reflects actual market prices but rather want us to figure it.I would much rather have more information than useless pricing.If it's of such a nature that it's not real what's the point??On the other hand more picture and explanations would be of better service to the collector.If you are putting yourself out there as a specialist catalog SPECIALIZE. A carbon copy of Scott's is not what is needed.

Correct firstfrog2013...What is REALLY needed is not what ebay says about stamp value, what catalogues say about stamp value, but a system that input rarity, scarceness of any given stamp whether it be in singles, mint, used, plate block and sheet form...We have to gather accurate information as maybe shown below..

1 - How many are left of any particular stamp in any form.
2 - What condition these stamps present themselves.
3 - What types do these stamps present themselves..e.g...mint, precancel, block, etc.Probably not, but worth a try.

Robert

Wert, I agree with you to great degree, but, regardless how many stamps or sets were issued has little bearing really. What I am trying to say is, just as an example, there might be 1000 stamps of a particular one existing, but if only 500 collectors are interested in it, then the rarity factor (RF) doesn't hold much water. However, if a particular stamp has 1000 stamps existing and there are 1500 collectors after it, then, that is a different story

Chimo

Bujutsu

But Bujutsu...Having said what you said, look at it this way what you are telling me there is no demand then the stamp is not a rarity..well..the (ONLY) The British Guiana One-Cent Black on Magenta stamp is NOT rare if no one wants it..???
I think it is RARE.

If I was thirty years younger and had the backing I would undertake a project to make a proper collector friendly all inclusive publication.I know many reference books are in print but think how much you have to spend to own them.Suppose that material was available in ONE book? Would not the price be worth the investment? Dream on Frog.