Tracking???

Flats more than 1/4" thick are considered parcels, which is why online ebay shipping for first class states "package or envelope".

Assuming your flat is more than 1/4" thick (and most are when there are several items in them, or packing material is added to make it thicker), USPS has no basis to reject an eBay-generated label with first class package or envelope, with tracking, period.

John

They must declare it non-machinable.

I'm sorry - I should have given the definition of what I consider to be "flats." I use the rigid 6x8" cardboard mailers, and also the 9x12" cardboard rigid mailers. These are flats to me. I am not talking about flat envelopes.

I may be wrong but I also believe if a flat, as defined above, weighs more that 3.5 ounces, it is also considered to be a parcel...

John

First class letters, flats and parcels are defined here:
http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/101.htm

Any first class mail that meets the standard of "parcel" (now) also qualifies for tracking. That wasn't the case with delivery confirmation. Those also had a thickness requirement, which is how the practice of putting a single styrofoam peanut in an envelope got started... That's no longer necessary. A rigid photo mailer is a "parcel" and qualifies for tracking even though it's very thin.

Hi, John... nope, it isn't... you
can ship FIRST CLASS up to 13 ounces
right in ebay or Paypal... we do it
every day of the week...

When you go to the shipping screen,
click the dropdown for First Class
and you will see it show...

"Package/Thick Envelope"

Then you can add extra services, or
addon insurance, then after you enter
the weight, it calculates it, then
all you need to do is click the PAY
button, then PRINT in the next window...

In the baseball card shipping world, it does happen (upgrade to Priority). Selling on ebay, you do NOT want a package arriving postage due. They need to be 3/4" thick. That can be done by just throwing a packing peanut in the bubble mailer along with the contents being shipped.

You cannot slap a paypal/ebay tracking label on a plain white envelope whether you think your 1,000,000% correct in thinking that you can or not

edit - looks like policies have changed but as srailkb says, not all employees are aware of it so I still wouldn't chance not having it 3/4 thick. The other plus side to that is it won't be going through a machine and have a better survival chance to get the recipient

johnsim03, you're thinking of the max weight for envelopes. No envelope can weigh >3.5 oz. Once it's over that it becomes a flat (not a parcel,) even if the dimensions would have otherwise qualified it as an envelope.

disi123:

Believe me, I know that FIRST CLASS is limited to 13 ounces. I think we are getting caught up in definitions a lot here. The point that more that 3/4" thick ensures it goes as a parcel is a great one - along with the peanut tip. That (3/4") thickness happens to also be the limit for large envelopes.

I have never had any problem with my rigid cardboard flats, and I don't expect any problems in the future. After multiple hundreds of mailings, I have never had a problem anywhere in the 50 States.

John

Nope, again... the ONLY limiting
factor is weight... there does not
exist any limit on thickness of any
package in the contract between ebay,
and Paypal and USPS.

For example... if you wanted to stuff
a padded envelope to protect an item
to the point where it's 2" thick, it
still ships FIRST CLASS WITH TRACKING
up to 13 ounces.

When you break the 13 ounce barrier,
you move into parcel shipments and
rates...

I have mailed a few items today using disi123 way thru ebay.
I mailed in a brown manila envelope.

Gonna take my chances....

D.M.....yours went out this way this AM.
If it comes postage due because of not being thick enough....I
will cover it.
Was trying to add tracking to most shipments that have decent value.
This will be a trial and error for me.

This statement makes it clear you do not understand. There ARE first class parcels.

Forgot to mention in the previous
post...

FIRST CLASS : WITH TRACKING

Up to 13 ounces and 84 inches in combined length and girth.

84"... well, let's have the non-believers
ponder that measurement...

Let's say it's a box... not even an envelope
or flat (we ship all 3 ways)... in fact, we
ship more boxes (with micro hard drives in
them more than anything else we ship USPS,
which measure 4" x 5" x 2" and weigh 5oz...

FIRST CLASS WITH TRACKING...

We also ship in another box, which measures
4" x 7" x 3"... up to 13 ounces...

FIRST CLASS WITH TRACKING...

You can use any size box you want, as long
as it does not exceed 84"...

If you like, since you're paying the FIRST
CLASS PKG RATE anyway, you can even send
stamps in boxes... you don't have to use
envelopes or flats...

So, in review... there are 2 limitations
and 2 limitations ONLY... 13 ounces and
84"

When you cross the 13 ounce threshhold,
then you would need to use either Priority
Small Flat Rate Box (as one choice), which
is the one we use most often for $5.20

Up to 70 pounds in USPS-supplied small box:
8-5/8 x 5-3/8 x 1-5/8 inches

or Parcel Select, which, for example at 14oz
is $6.68 (price goes up with weight, as it's
not Flat Rate...

Up to 70 pounds and 130 inches in combined length and girth.

Dollarwise, Priority Flat Rate which comes
in Small, Medium and Large, makes the most
sense versus Parcel Select, with all choices
up to 70 pounds...

Then there's Regional Box A & B... you can
check those out as well...

Wow, you just don't get it. My point was, and still is, that if you put DC/Tracking on a machinable first class flat it may get upgraded to Priority with a bill for your recipient. I don't even understand what you're trying to argue at this point.

Also I don't know if its just me or what but I find your posts extremely difficult to read the way you wrap lines every 25 characters. The forum will wrap it automatically, you don't have to do it.

kevin504, most likely you won't have any problems, but if you check, you'll eventually notice that a higher percentage of those will NOT have tracking information available. The reason for that is that you're trying to obtain a service restricted for parcels on something that isn't a parcel (a brown manila envelope is not a parcel unless you put something very rigid inside.)

Technically, sending a manila envelope with tracking is not allowed, but as I said before, many USPS employees are not aware of all the nuances so just scan it anyway. It doesn't surprise me that disi123 can continue putting parcel labels on items that aren't parcels and experience few (or no) issues. But technically, to qualify for first class tracking, it has to be a first class parcel. That means it either needs to be rigid or thick (an oversimplification, but covers the majority of cases.) In the past (delivery confirmation days,) rigid was not enough (rigid flats did not qualify.) Now rigid flats DO qualify -- a simple 6x9 photo mailer is rigid enough to qualify as a parcel and you can add tracking to that.

As I said before, I've never seen a first class envelope or flat w/ ("illegal") tracking on it returned (or delivered w/ postage due.) My experience is that if the employee actually knows what the rules are, they typically just cross out the tracking barcode and send it through as regular first class. You end up overpaying (paying the higher parcel rate and get the cheaper flat or envelope service...)

In response to the previous message...

Firstly, the subject of this thread
is TRACKING, which I have stuck to
the confines of with each post...
not machining or hand CDS's or anything
else... so I wish everyone stays on
subject while this thread is still
alive...

The main points of printing your own
labels are to avoid the machining
process entirely... never having to
look a clerk in the eye, never having
to wait on lines, never dealing with
the mistakes of clerks... and more
importantly - providing your customers
with a level of customer service
(tracking) which is both beneficial
to them (and to you) AND GUARANTEES YOU
Paypal Seller Protection...