Can A Fake Stamp Have Some Value ?

Example : Scott - Switzerland #6 / Rayon II 10 Rp.
It is existing forgeries of the stamp: the counterfeiters utilized a genuine stamp ( Scott #8) and they added a black frame all around the cross.

I have 2 questions:
1- If you have a stamp which corresponds to #6.
How to determinate if the frame is genuine or added ?
Or : How to differentiate Scott#8 + an added frame with Scott#6 ??

2- Let's say that the frame is a fake.
But the counterfeiters used as underground a genuine stamp !
So, the stamp as #6 has no value but as #8, it has a certain value . Where is it possible to see a CV?

Thank you

Speaking in the general sense, certain forgeries most definitely do have value, e.g., Sperati.

The contemporary Hart L. Pierce counterfeit of U.S. revenue R1c has a value of $200-500, despite legitimate R1c having a value of less than $1.00. It is not a philatelic counterfeit, but rather the intent was to defraud the government at the time (1860s).

I've seen Confederate Birmingham forgeries selling (well for sale at least) for $500!

Though I did get mine for 11¢.

If you think you have a #6 (very low probability) then get it expertised. Short of that, you must become an expert. If the #8 that was altered had a cancel that was then overwritten by the faked cross lines, you could potentially detect that the faked lines were on top of the cancel using enough magnification.

Another possibility is to post a very good image (1200 DPI ideally) of the stamp in question and maybe one of use can take a look.

Attached the pictures of the stamp

In case of non-visibility
http://img674.imageshack.us/img674/4585/1ZvG9e.jpg

http://img674.imageshack.us/img674/2787/PF0EDj.jpg






Waiting impatiently for your comments.

PS: I know that Santa Claus will come soon.
But, even if I believe that he is existing, there is 99.9999% of chances that it's a fake one !

Thank you

People collect all kinds of things - including forgeries.

Sperati forgeries are among the most popular, due to their quality / history etc.

Single forged items are not as 'hot' as writeups with different forged of the same kind - perhaps compared to the genuine. This material is sought after by specialists.

Also, collections based on a particular forger tend to be popular.

Could be a genuine 8 modified to look like a 6, but I'm no expert. You need to do some examination yourself of the border lines of the cross. Should be under the cancel (although the cancel looks conveniently smudged) and the lines should be very irregular. Have it expertised for certainty.

@HungaryForStamps
Even if the cross border is UNDER the cancel, that doesn't prove that it's a genuine one.Because the counterfeiters bought MINT stamps on which they apply the border and AFTER they used it on the traditionnal postal way and they recover the cancelled stamp !

I would like to give it for expertising ( even hopeless), but I am not ready to pay 1 or 3% of its expected catalogue value only to know that 's a fake !

I have no experience at all about the tariffs for expertizing and I will open a new topic about the question.

There is only one way to expertize that stamp and that is to have the stamp in front of you ,so a scan does not help .There are only two people who can expertize that stamp in the U.S. ,the are SERGIO SISMONDO and STANLEY RICHARDS of Boston .

There is a 2 pound Australian ,Map and Kangaroo, where the original stamp goes for $2,000.00 and the fake goes for $5,000.00

@floortrader
Of course, the stamp ( fake?) is in front of me.

But I would like to examine the conditions of Sismondo and Richards.

Sometimes a forgery is the only stamp of a specific country you can get your hands on. So why, in general, wouldn't someone buy it?

Bill Weiss APS Expertiser could sure give you proper direction. As someone else already said there are Fake/Forgery collectors. Also there are some collectors that buy fakes or Forgeries to use as fill ins. I sold two I had a few years ago for $75.00 each. Knowing what I do now. I should have kept them. I sold them to a dealer. So I'm sure they were worth a lot more than $75.

By the way Fakes and Forgeries can be Legal too.

PRIATEL----What I was trying to say ,is that some fakes have to be in front of a expert who has the proper reference material and not something a experience collector can do looking at a scan .I believe 95 % of the fakes can be identified thru a on line scan of good quality .The other 5% need a expert to decide .

You can google SISMONDO for information ,Stanley is now retired and doesn't do opinions for the public .

@floortrader
Yes, that's what I will do: to contact first the experts by email, exposing my problrm and I think that for a preliminary check, with a small fee, they will accept to receive a scan 1200 or 2400.