Silent Precancel On Late 1800's 1ct Benjamin Franklin

Looking for confirmation, or information, on these two marks on the 1ct Benjamin Franklins.

This one, the mark does not run past the color, into the border.






This one does run into the border, but does not run off the stamp.





I know the stamps, themselves, are pitiful, but I am in the process of organizing my inherited collection based on their cancels, or precancels. That is why my great-grandfather collected. I have a rather odd assortment, a Roschach test, if you will, as someone once called it, on another board. These two stamps seem to fall in that category.

I am unsure if they are well placed cancels, or precancels, based on the placement of the marks. I would appreciate suggestions, or opinions on what they might be. Thank you.

Hi cet_gg,

You can check out this SCF Post. I think you have these...yes they are in poor condition, but they do look similar:

https://www.stampcommunity.org/topi...IC_ID=40993&

Enjoy the hobby!

Don

Thanks, Don. I did do a search on the forum, and learned precancels, without city or towns, were called 'silent precancels'. I thought these might be some of those, as I did not see the lines as blurred letters. (Yes, I am going blind, I have cataracts in both eyes, and will have surgery in the next couple of months, so any help you see something, feel free to point it out to me). These aren't coil stamps, either, I don't believe, so I did not look at the thread about coils, you provided, until now, when you did.

I thought the lines might just be poorly struck, like this one, that appears similar to the one for Battle Creek, MI, found in Cole's catalog on page 198. I'm not sure this one is a MI 'silent' precancel. But it did appear similar to the two 1ct Franklins, only with just the one line, though the line does run through the border.








I'm not sure what I have, but I am enjoying learning and working on this collection. Thanks for your time in replying.

This thread has some info..

https://goscf.com/t/5867&whichpage=1 br /

Yes, 51studebaker, that's the thread I looked at, in my search, where I learned they were called 'silent precancels'. Thank you for posting that link here.

It feels great that Topics I've brought up years ago are still being referenced even today!

And I thank you for starting the topic, warrehouse. It was very interesting and informative.

The key to id this issues is measuring the precancel line/bar width and distance between any additional lines/bars.

Also the issue posted by cet_gg is not from Battle Creek, MI since that issue was later than the last PXCL definitive was 1887 issue, all later issues for Battle Creek were used on Postage Dues only!

Thanks for the advice, warrehouse.

After over a year of working on the collection I inherited, I can now safely say I have all 1500 classics of the 19th century safely mounted, and in some semblance of order. During this daunting task, I found 6 more, of what I believe, are silent precancels, that have me revisiting this forum, with questions.

1. Are these, indeed, silent precancels?

2. I do not wish to remove them from the paper, in order to show the ink does not touch the paper, thus possibly proving they are precancels. However, by not removing them from the paper, I cannot say if they watermarked, or not, thus, I can't tell what the stamp is, #246 or #264? I read there is a way, that someone with more knowledge can look at the perfs and tell. Is there someone here that can do that? Or were only certain issues given silent precancels, that would tell me which stamp they are?

3. I am not adverse to getting the 'Silent Precancel' catalog mentioned, written by David Smith, however, I do not wish to spend thirty dollars on a handful of stamps that are worth collectively, about three. Do any of the stamps I have posted, justify the cost? I will add, I do not intend to go further, with these, at this time, since I still have thousands more stamps to review. I haven't even started looking at the foreign stamps, in the collection.

4. I do have more precancels, in the modern era, does the above mentioned catalog cover those? What would you advise?

5. Lastly, these are the stamps I have found. Are there any other specific Scott numbers I need to look to, to find other types of silent precancels. i.e. I have seen some with the wavy lines that might be mistaken for flag cancels, but are actually a silent precancel.

6. Just looking for general observations on these, to learn more, in the event I get back to these, in my lifetime, after work is done on the rest of the collection. :D

Thank you, in advance, for your time and assistance.
















One more question, is this a silent precancel of a different sort, on this 219? I took this in to retroreveal and it appears to be stars on his head, but I can't make out the rest of it.

So Far they appear to be "Precancel", since the cancels only cover the stamps in question don't show on the pieces they are attached too.

I'll have to look them up!

Please let me know, if you have time to do so, and are so inclined to. I would look forward, and appreciate learning what you find out.

Thank you for confirming they appear to be precancels. At least I know, I might have them mounted in the right category in the collection. Otherwise, I'm whistling in the dark, as to what series they belong to, and don't know where to put them.

I also just noticed I had another cancel that looks like it should run off the stamp, but doesn't. I thought it was originally a radial geometric cancel. What do the people here, think?

Do not remove from piece it is the only way that you know it is a precancel whether is was an official or unofficial useage.

Example 1: is likely a precancel

Example 2: is less likely but possible

Example 3: Is a precancel, I've not determine from where!

Example 4-8: are known precancel varations

Example 9: is not determinable.

Example 10: Is a well centered cancel!

warrehouse, my apologies for not returning sooner, and offering my thanks, for your time and confirmation of the precancels. I really appreciate the information. If you do ever run across where Example 3 is from, please let me know, and thank you, again!