Speaking About Grills ???

What's your opinion....the old eyes ain't what they used to be! I tried counting points and got a headache.

I don't know what it is, but it sure ain't a grill, as defined.
(It also isn't a Canadian stamp)

I have one more for those so inclined to take a stab at it.

These are grilled stamps. If my memory is correct the grill was susposed to make it hard to remove the cancelation thus preventing a used stamp from being cleaned and reused. There were a number of different sized grills used but I do not have areference book available to look them up. I think they also varied as to which way the points pointed through the paper either front to back or back to front. I will try to find a reference on these.

These are possibly patent defacing cancels. There were a number of different types of cancels devised (some patented) to both cancel and deface the stamp, so that the stamp could not be cleaned and re-used. Neat!

I'm aware they are points up grills. Its the odd paterns! I was curious if anyone has a better ID on them. I can't find a match...but like I mentioned, my eyes aren't young anymore. Even under magnification, I can't find a matching grill.

thay're not grills - they're cancellations that perforate the stamps!
No matter how good your eyes are, it will NEVER match one of the grill patterns used on issued US stamps.
See http://arago.si.edu/flash/?tid=2027501%7Cs1%3D1%7C and the references at the bottom of that article
especially http://www.jamesdire.net/grill.html

These are **NOT** grills. If anything they are fake grills, as I've never seen a patent cancel that "punches" the paper as heavily as these do. Think about patent cancels that were designed to break the surface of the paper to prevent re-use. The PO clerk would cancel the stamps with either a hand-held stamper type device still in use to this day, or it could have also been attached to a hammer-like device as well. But in either case, I think it's sfe to assume that a clerk would not normally smack the cancel so hard that the paper would be punched as effectively as shown here. Thus my conclusion that they are fake grills. (Unless it is a patent cancel I am not faniliar with, in which case, I take it back.......)!

PS This discussion belongs in the 19th Century US Stamps Category........

I respectfully disagree with you. Thanks for the links.

They appear to be grill like cancels given that the black ink dots on the front of the stamps correspond to the indentation patterns on the back of the stamps.

They are raised, like a grill would be and similar to other grilled issues I have. In the Scott Catalog, these same issues are listed with multiple grill paterns.

There is nothing to disagree with. The issued grills followed specific patterns. These have ALL been identified. Your stamp does not have one of these grills. Either it was a cancellation devise that perforated the paper or someone hit it with a meat tenderizer to try to simulate (fake) a grill. The 1c stamp is Scott 63 and the 3c stamp is Scott 65. The indentations on the stamp were applied after the stamps were sold, not during their production. Call it what you want, but no matter what you call it, it will not change the stamp or catalog number.

Not grills, they are a type of cancellation like Bill said. If anyone maintains that they are grilled, they will need to document it as a new kind. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Don

Given that the grills seem to coincide with the killer type markings on the front of the stamp, might this be an attempt at a pre-cancel?

I stand corrected and appologize for posting in the wrong catagory.