There Is No Santa Claus

Years ago Pat Herst had a short article in one of his publications with the above title- adding 'in philately.' He was attempting to impress on his readers that if you are offered something at a price far lower than market value, you need to back off and beware- something's wrong.

I recently went to my stamp club and happened to sit next to an older gentleman- perhaps late 70's. He has the reputation of being a bit of a recluse, no family- his outings to the club are probably his only social activity. He apparently has a nice US collection that he spends much of his time on.

We got to talking and he mentioned that he was disposing of most of his mint hinged US from the Colombians on- he was replacing these with NH material. I told him that sounded like an expensive proposition. He replied no- not at all. It seems he 'knows this guy' - a dealer out West who has amazing bargains. He went on to relate he'd recently bought #365 and 366- Blue Papers- for about $100 each. I replied that would be about 5% of cat value and asked what was wrong with them- he said nothing- there were in fact NH and attractive. He offered to pass this guys contact info along to me as he has 'duplicates to sell'. I thought yes, I bet he does.

I declined with thanks but it has been eating at me since. Clearly this guy loves his hobby and has no idea he is probably being ripped off. That sort of thing simply does not happen in reality. Either he is fantasizing about the whole thing or this dealer is selling him stuff that has been reworked somehow, maybe with blue dye. It's like witnessing elder abuse and not being able to do much about it. I thought about asking him for the name of this guy and doing my own investigation. Perhaps next time I see the other member. I'd like to hear other opinions..

Oh boy.

It depends on how far you want to get involved.

At the least, you could suggest he get his examples of 365 and 366 certified, as that is the recommendation in the Scott catalogue- and no one else will buy these without a certificate of authenticity.

That might nip it in the bud.

I agree. I probably would have said, that seems too low a price to be true ... Are you sure these stamps are genuine? And thus plant the seed that this gentleman might want to investigate his purchase, or the seller. But then, due to other commitments, I don't feel I would have the time or interest to swoop in and save this guy, so that would be my response.

The more I think about it, what this other member does is his own business. If it makes him happy, so be it. What bugs me is after he is gone and his survivors try to sell what they think will be a major asset only to be told that all/ most of the good stuff isn't what he bought it as. Next time I see him I may ask for the contact info for this dealer. Also the guy I spoke with could be fabricating some of this just to impress people.

Why not talk to Club Officers. Someone may have a closer relationship or know a family member who could intervene in a more obscure way?

I don't have a perfect answer, but you MUST do something. It's shameful.

I would certainly try to get the name of this dealer. Perhaps he/she is known, is a member of ASDA, APS or something.

I agree maybe asking another club member who might have a more close friendship. It does sound fishy...and I would certainly feel bad if I had done nothing and discovered years later that he was taken. As a fellow collector, I think we all have a responsibility to be responsible collectors. I don't know a perfect solution, but I would do something. Perhaps finding out the dealers name and checking with ASDA or the APS. Good luck!

The club president is a local dealer and I am planning a stop in his store next week, I will mention this to him. I did not catch the other member's name but he will probably know him. I will also be at the next meeting in two weeks then I will ask the other member if he has this dealer's name. I can then take things from there. It is possible my dealer friend may know more about this member than I do and he may tell me to discount what he told me. I'd still try to get this dealer's name.

I have heard of guys who doctor stamps, selling them at huge discounts. Many of them avoid prosecution by the feds by operating on a direct sales basis, meeting customers in hotel lobbies, etc. Sounds as if this dealer is using the mails. It should be at least checked out.

I also wonder how the collector is "disposing of" his mint hinged material. He could also be getting ripped off as he disposes of these. I wonder if the dealer from out west is buying these from him.

Hi

I agree with Dudley. Get the name of the "dealer" and then check if he is a member of the APS, ASDA or any other organization. If so, I would file a complaint. Let the organization determine if he is reputable. If not reputable he should be put out of business. Stamp collecting is hurt by dealers like that.

In my friend's store I had someone come in trying to sell some "rare" stamps he bought. He walked out in a huff when I showed him a stockbook with dozens of the stamp tens of times lower than what the individual paid for his "rare" stamp. What is amazing is how individuals know where a stamp dealer is when they wish to sell something but totally forget the dealer to find out if something is worth purchasing.

Jerry B

Ask that gentleman for that contact information he offered you. Do a bit of looking and then make the call..you really should step in here as I feel that's elder abuse and just plain cold-blooded! -Jeff

Hi,
Difficult situation at best.......... I had one similar involving a Rolex. In 1977 I bought a Rolex Submariner for $500, and sourced the money from side jobs. Yes, I wanted to be like Mike Nelson of Sea Hunt and of course the original James Bond.

In the early '80s, a manager at work came in from lunch saying he just got a heck of a deal. I guy was selling watches from his car trunk and he bought a Rolex for $200 (they were going for an easy $1k by then). Well, he stuck it in my face for me to admire and sure enough, the second hand was jumping from second to second, and the magnifier over the date section did not magnify. It was a very obvious fake.

OK, what could I do??? If I told him it was a fake, he would either argue with me or get terribly upset, and as the messenger it would roll to me. So I did what Mom always advised......when in doubt, just say "That's nice" - which I did.

Help the guy if you can...we will all be there some day and hope that when that day comes...there are people like us who care.

From what you have posted, everything at this point is conjecture on your part. If you're really interested in this issue, I think you should ask to see his hinged collection (it may consist of lower graded stamps), and the never-hinged stamps he is buying. They too, may be lower graded or faulted stamps. Right now you have made an assumption that he is disposing of top grade stamps and replacing them with lower graded material and is being taken advantage of.

I think you need some solid evidence before "investigating" a fellow collector's stamp disposition and acquisition practices.

Don
A post-70s collector.

Don Sellos- yeah I agree. It is all conjecture at this point and I do not intend to charge into this guy's life and try to save him from himself- he may not want to be 'assisted' like this. I will as I indicated talk to the club president when I see him later this or early next week and mention it. I may also see the guy at the next club meeting and ask him for contact info on the dealer. It is ultimately someone's own business how they spend their stamp dollars.