610 8 Cent Krieghoff - Possible New Variety ?

BeeSee, I have noticed your pane/sheet illustrations on the site before and they are really nice. Can I ask what software you use to make them. I realise that they are just grids and can be made with many software tools. I was just wondering if you have something that simplifies making all the positions (cells) consistent and aligned.

Excuse me..You are implying that it is not worth the extra size of the catalogue because of NO pricing value...I don't know about other people, but I collect stamps for fun and pleasure..If indeed any one is just only worried about MONEY, may I suggest NOT buying a catalogue and concentrate on what NON experts on ebay think stamps should be sold for..Just my opinion....



Now..That I can agree on..
Robert

wert, you seem to be taking one of my points and are using it out of context. I am in no way implying that information on minor varieties is not useful. I am saying that it does not necessarily belong in a catalogue for the general Canadian collector.

I share your belief that collecting stamps is not about money. But a stamp catalogue, by its very definition, is where you go to find out about prices. It is not supposed to be an inexhaustible list of varieties without pricing.

Incidentally, I took your advice and purchased a Celestron digital microscope and I love it. Got a good mail-order price from the US and I am now able to effortlessly view extreme details of my stamps on my 30-inch monitor. Fun!

I think it is up to Forums like this and specialist groups like the Elizbethan Study Group to study and document varieties. As for the Unitrade Catalogue, it is up to the editor to include what he feels fit.

After, complete books have been published on areas of interest such as the Small Queens, Admirals, Prince Edward Island, etc, yet those stamps take up but a few pages in the main stream catalogues. Maybe I will do a small book on the Krieghoff issue

Scottamer, I actually drew my grid in AutoCAD, a vector base engineering software. I then converted it into a jpg file and added the text and shading in Paint Shop Pro.

Meanwhile, back to Krieghoff, here is a variety that was added in the 2015 Unitrade Catalogue, is is numbered 610v and is the "Branch under sleigh" variety. It is on Pane 1, position 50.

For that I apologize Scottamer...I have seen too here and on the coin side where I belong to, people come on here and are only worried if it is any of value...dollars..make me money attitude, then disappear...These are the type of people that drive the ebay market and reflects back on what we pay for stamps..Makes me mad some times..



Good stuff Scottamer..We will turn you into a "flyspecker" yet..haha




BeeSee..As in not what collectors need and want to identify/categorize and associate a Scott # to a variety, but what HE wants..?




BeeSee, do it my friend, I will gladly help with any input..




OVERKILL...HAHA..but a good job BeeSee


Robert

wert, I'm sure what was meant:

The catalogue will include what the Editor considers appropriate based on feedback from collectors and the desires of the catalogue publishers (# of pages for example).

It is an editor's job to edit, and so by its very definition means that his/her opinions have some bearing as well.

I agree that the study groups and specialist works are the place to go as not every variety will ever have a Catalogue #, there are just too many.

Well, it is not what he WANTS, it is his job as editor to determine what is best for the catalogue. The same goes for the editor of any publication. That is my opinion, and I certainly respect your opinion too.

Meanwhile another Krieghoff variety, the "Stick below the blue sleigh". It is on pane 1, position 31. A rather pronounced variety.

What I would like to know is, how did all these foreign
dots,scratches,strokes get on these stamps in the first place.
I mean why so many so called "varieties" ?

Was it poor quality control by the printer British American
Bank Note?

By 1972 BABN had been printing various offset/litho stamps
for the Post Office Department since 1968.

None of the other other ones had that many "varieties"
or any.
Sure the Paul Kane had the "stroke on teepee" Unitrade 553i
but that was quality printing compared to this.

Was the printer breaking in a new offset press perhaps
and the employees were learning as they went along?

Great question Litho!

Apparently the Krieghoff stamps were farmed out to a BABN subsidiary company in Winnipeg, and that has been noted in the 2015 Unitrade. I do not have the exact details at hand, but will dig them out.

Yes that would be great BC. Any chance you would know
what type of printing press was used?

When I go to The Canadian Postal Archives
and into the Canadian Postal Stamps Database
for this (or any) stamp I am only able to access the digital
image which has an X http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/n...S&SECT3=ITLV which is fine.

But how does one access online the other images of the proofs
and the progressive proofs and all the rest?

Regarding the printers of the Krieghoff stamp, this information came from page 124 of the Carleton Specialized Catalogue of Canadian Postage Stamps, 1974 edition.

"The philatelic inscription indicates that the stamp was the work of British America Bank Note, when it was in fact printed by four-colour lithography by Saults & Pollard Ltd of Winnipeg, an affiliate of B.A.B.N. On the philatelic inscriptions in all four corners, the painters name is incorrectly spelled "Kreighoff".

With a bit of further research I came up with the following, published in the Canadian Plate Block Stamp Journal Vol. 6 #2 (February-March 1973).

WE HEARD ---- on the GRAPEVINE !

The editor of the "Buffalo", published by the Winnipeg Philatelic Society, telephoned Mr. Lorrie Pollard of Saults and Pollard, Ltd, Winnipeg a printing company owned by Canadian Bank Note C ompany. Mr. Pollard, the President informed her his firm had only printed the "picture " portion of the Krieghoff stamp, as they lacked Security clearance at the time the stamp had to be printed.

So the 8c; Canada; and the incorrectly spelt name on the Plate Corner were all printed in Ottawa including the year 1815 instead of the correct 1812!

Mr. Pollard did have his problems , we've learned a skid of 28,000 sheets tipped over ruining the sheets and that another 28, 000 sheets had to be run. There were 4 panes on each sheet.

As we've already reported, please check the 39th and 50th stamp on each pane, on both stamps you may find an "extra " log in the snow. The 39th stamp can also have the split door frame variety. These extra log varieties only appear on one of the four panes, and each occurs on a different pane.

When soaked off the envelope you will find the dull paper shows up dark blue under the UV lamp, while the white paper shows up Hy-brite under your UVS 11 Mineralight lamp.

200 panes of the Krieghoff stamp, on white paper, complete with Plate margins were sold to Canadian dealers by the P. O. at their booth in San Francisco. Also with the Ottawa tag on dull paper, which did not reach many Canadian dealers when it was issued.

Obviously the writer of this article got mixed up between BABN and the Canadian Bank Note Company!

Saults and Pollard is now called Pollard Banknote, and seems to specialize in lottery tickets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollard_Banknote

http://www.pollardbanknote.com/

So far, since BeeSee reminded us of his article in the Corgi Times, I've identified 32 different varieties.

I will gladly assist BeeSee with a publication.

Obviously some may not be constant, such as Pane 1 Position 1 with the additional "string on the roof" or others where the "variety" is in a different position from that previously identified.

Pane 1 Position 02 - Black dot under "r" of "painter"
Pane 1 Position 02 - Black dot under "r" of "painter" & String on the roof
Pane 1 Position 03 - Black dot in upper right corner
Pane 1 Position 05 - Black dot below man at shop
Pane 1 Position 14 - Black dot below man at shop
Pane 1 Position 16 - Blue dot above horse and Black dot left of "painter
Pane 1 Position 19 - Pink sun in sky
Pane 1 Position 22 - Black hole in roof
Pane 1 Position 28 - Rock in snow below red sleigh
Pane 1 Position 30 - Faint string in lower right corner
Pane 1 Position 31 - Black stick in snow under blue sleigh
Pane 1 Position 37 - Black dot in lower left corner
Pane 1 Position 38 - Red dot in snow
Pane 1 Position 39 - Black bird left of chimney
Pane 1 Position 44 - Black dot between man and horse
Pane 1 Position 48 - Blue bird in sky
Pane 2 Position 01 - Rock in snow below fence
Pane 2 Position 27 - Red line on roof
Pane 2 Position 32 - Dot above sleigh driver
Pane 2 Position 45 - Blue hole in roof
Pane 2 Position 50 - Hole in roof
Pane 3 Position 32 - Accent on "U" of "CORNELIUS"
Pane 3 Position 32 - Broken sleigh, red mark to right
Pane 3 Position 45 - Blue hole in roof
Pane 4 Position 07 - Dot left of middle fence
Pane 4 Position 14 - Black dot in margin to right of shop
Pane 4 Position 15 - Dot above NA
Pane 4 Position 16 - Black dot on wall of shop above the horse
Pane ? Position ?? - Green sky tint (sunrise)
Pane ? Position ?? - Hickie on "D" of "CANADA"
Pane ? Position ?? - Doubled dog" due to green colour shift
Pane ? Position ?? - Strong red line between the two tallest trees
Pane All Position Column 4 - "Broken door frame on shed"

I have a complete pane 2 and most of a pane 1 as well as other singles.

I'm missing:
Pane 1 Position 05 - Black dot below man at shop
(I must have given it away long ago, before I knew of it)
and these two which I've seen somewhere on a forum:
Pane ? Position ?? - Green sky tint (sunrise)
Pane ? Position ?? - Strong red line between the two tallest trees
and
all Pane 3 and 4 varieties.

Many of the varieties, such as the blue and red "dots" are due to colour shifts.
Here's an extreme example: