Need Help To Identify Perfins On British Abroad H.k. China

Hello to everyone. Yesterday I purchased a small lot of Hong Kong stamps, including these 4 stamps. I would like to know if anyone may be provided information about these stamps.
I read on one site that expressed they are the George V1 G.B. Abroad "China" are considered rare in their discussion with perfins, however I am not aware of the market value of these stamps. The vendor who sold it to me did not have enough background knowledge about the perfins at all. I do not know if they are truly rare or scarce since market demand also should be in consideration in those determinations. If the website was expressing this,I like to be aware if any of these stamps have been sold in auction in past ect. I am aware that perfins on different stamps are a speciality, however, I do not commonly collect them. Can anyone provide me information if they are truly considered high value stamps? Anyone know any auction houses that have sold them before, other than the British Perfin Society? I would like to be aware of that for future references.
These are the stamps below.
Any information would be appreciated. Thank you in advance

(1) Hong Kong Queen Victoria 5 cent blue with perfin K&W with watermark with a possible shanghi cancellation.( nothing was discussed on that website)
(2)G.B. six Cent orange- King George V1 with overprint "China", including an illegible cancellation with perfins in vertical position from left side perforations, C.B. backwards, and not completion of punch holes, including S.H with letter S not completely punched." with watermark.
(3)G.B. 10 cent blue- King George V1 with overprint "China" perfin position is S. H. has watermark as well.

(4) No perfins on the King George $1.00 was just part of lot..i know it is not worth anything high value.

Have you checked out this site,

http://rodsell.com/hkperfins/hkperfin.html

Pagoda

Thank you so much, pagoda..fantastic to inform about the perfin markings ect. I have not seen that before. I saw other writings on Stampboards of posters writing about the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank Co, but I was not aware about the holes punch how many was required to identify.
Apparently, it expresses the company as 33m H.S./B.C. (45 holes) Canton- HK & Shanghai Bank Co. The 10c definitely counts with the 45 holes, the 10 c yellow has missing perfs due not completion on right side (39 holes counted) was suppose to be this company. including it was written backwards.
I was reading that need to be careful with forgeries even with the perfins when I attempted to see if any information was written in Stampboards as well. Both were watermarked as well, so that is a positive sign.
According to this site,"The Hong Kong stamped their company names on the company names on their stamps to stop theft." The Hong Kong Study Group uses this number system to identify specifics:
So both stamps are under 33m H.S./B.C. 45 holes- Canton- HK & Shanghai Bank.
So at this point the, 10 c ultra matches and is genuine,45 holes ( counted with punch and unpunch holes under scope).
The 10 c yellow, is a genuine stamp. however, the punch holes are not completed due to fall on vertical perforations, including inverted punch holes. However, if you count on place both stamps next to each other, the backward letter "H"(12) holes and "S" (12) holes matches the number for the exact holes what was required as shown in position as geniune one required to make position of lettering (10cent stamp) the top middle of letter "B" (3 punch holes) and curve of top of"C" (3 punch holes). however not completed in a backwards position due to cut off from right side vertical perforations.
For the 6 cent yellow, I would say that it shows the stamp punch holes not completed including backwards position and cut off on right side vertical perforations, but still could be geniune. Probably would need to have this more throughly looked at. Not sure if the paper was position in a different manner with on the sheet itself on machine for the 6 cent.
The inverted position of perfins makes it more unique. I would love to know if many were produced in this manner as well for the specific 10 c stamp and 6 c yellow.
I have looked at the Philatelic Foundation certification site under Hong Kong and they have certified perfins before, however, for higher denomination values including number over print. They did not have any certified for these specific denomination stamps. So, it is hard to compare if they have been popular for auction, and would require a certification or not.

Blazenstar

Your perfin stamps are Queen Victoria and George V (not George V1 as you mentioned).

Any upside down or back to front or incomplete/misplaced perfins are the result of a lazy operator... mostly these were punched privately by a company having their own pefin punch and, depending on how bored or inebriated the operator, quality control was not important. They would fold several layers of stamps either vertically or horizontally and punched them giving rise to every second one being reversed or upside down (or both) and that also produces many "blind" pin holed perforations as the thickness of the folded stamps was too much for the punch.

The value of the stamps depend on the watermark as I believe two exists for these stamps... values would thus range from a few pennies to a few tens of UK pounds. The perfination would in my opinion reduce vastly the value as they would have been punched by the many thousands and most collectors who are not into peffins prefer quality. Perfin collectors MOSTLY prefer perfect stamps too with good perforations and the back to front, misplaced/incomplete, upside down ones would be for curiosity value.

Thank you so much for your wonderful, excellent comments, Scctzm..

Important for all to be made aware when assessing stamps: Even if a site expresses they may be rare, other factors must come in play with the assessment to determine market value ect.which scotzm has explain very well. Thank you so much..When I checked Philatelic Foundation certification website, and only saw one perfin with a higher denomination, I knew it was not worth to get certified. Thank you also for providing me the current market demand value of them.

Although the 10 vent blue matches to be a Canton- HK Shanghai Bank Co, for an example, still does not mean that they are what main collectors may choose as a market demand in their own collection.
I am so glad that both of these gentleman provided and shared important information for future references. I can look back especially with the charting provided by Pagoda if I come across them again in the future.

I agree with you, Scotzm that mainly collectors of perfins would prefer to have the punch hole markings in a clear position. At times I very particular what I look for with stamps as well. but not always fortunate to find in condition. according to the vendor he did not have enough information about the specifics. The best is I can inform where to find information on them if he comes across them again his own benefit.I am sure he will appreciate it as well.

Thank you so much both for the excellent educational learning experience about them. I truly appreciate it.

Warm regards,

Blazenstar

blazenstar,

there is no need to get them certified as it would not be cost effective. They are of little value even to a specialist,

Pagoda

Absolutely correct about not getting them certified. But I am truly grateful for the charting information for future references. Going to inform my friend about it too for his own benefit to have as well. Appreciate you sharing the information...smiles

Have a great day! It is starting to be beautiful weather there! smiles..

Thank you again, Pagoda..smiles

Warm Regards,

Blazenstar

i have two stamps with perfin's that I need identification of ...

... KENT ... and ... I & R
M

thanks for any info...

Neither of those are Hong Kong or China. Check out a thread on GB perfins or start a new one.