Austria Scott 481 Or 499 (Screen Or No Screen)

I've been puzzled by these for a while. I have many sets so I'd like to be able to put the debate to rest (in my own mind).
I have nothing to compare them against, so here is picture of the lower colored part. Is it a 481 or 499? I think it's (no screen) making it a 491? Any opinions would be appreciated.

It's hard to tell from your photo whether it's photo or engraved.
A scan would be better.

Here is a thread that might help you.

http://goscf.com/t/16798&whichpage=5

Here are a few more images. Yes that thread is more appropriate - Thank You.

I placed a reply in that thread to take a look at this thread. I hope that was the appropriate thing to do?

Your second pair of pics are a bit better.

There appears to be screening on the background of the 5S value
indicator which would make it a Scott 481, therefore engraved.

Scott is wrong when they claim both 481 and 499 are printed
via photogravure.

Michel and* Austria Netto Katalog states that what Scott calls 481
was printed via line engraving not photogravure.

* error corrected

Hi Lithograving,

We seem to be reading Michel differently.

This is what I see in my old 1998/99 edition:

Sc #481 = Mi 770I uses Rastertiefdruck = Photogravure

This used flat plates and shows screening.

Sc #499 = Mi 770II uses Rotationstiefdruck = Rotogravure

This used cylinders and doesn't show screening.

Nigelc, you are correct I should not have included
Michel but the Austria Netto Katalog Österreich Specialkatalog
does state that the first printing of the Schilling values were
by Linientiefdruck(StTdr) gerasterter Grund
Line engraved ( Recess)screened background.

Thanks Lithograving for clarifying the Michel/Netto point.

However, it's left me scratching my head a bit.

"Rakeltiefdruck" is a new term to me for rotogravure but that's the easy bit.

What is happening though when a stamp is printed using line engraving with a photographic screen?

I guess this is some form of photogravure but I don't understand what Netto means by this.

I agree Nigel it's not 100% clear to me either.

There was some discussion about this issue on a German
speaking forum where SCF member Galeoptix/Rein took part.

http://www.briefmarken-forum.com/t5...-ank-767-774

Mentioned there is Linientiefdruck" geätzter Kupfertiefdruck (Plattendruck)
which would mean they were printed on etched copper flat plates.

Here is a copy of a screened item from a previous thread. The difference is actually in the inking not the printing method?

The thread is at
http://goscf.com/t/16798&whichpage=5
on psge 4-5



The difference shows up best in the colored areas as to the screening affect?

All mentioned stamps show screens but the difference is in the usage of ink and machinery.


Thick viscous inks combined with heavy plates/cylinders [both could be used!] that had to pull out the ink from the recessed lines or dots under enormous pressure [with some ink still left on the plates/cylinder wiped off by a doctor blade (Rakel) or a cloth reel]

OR

thin fluid inks combined with light cylinders that would flood the paper reels hadn't it beeen for the doctor blade [Rakel] that wiped off the superfluous ink.

The differences are not so easy to spot. The inked dots in the latter process have the tendency to wash out and form a continuum, whereas in the former process the dots rather can be seen as separate dots;



ALL terms used here to name the 2 different processes are confusing! ;)

Both in recess [thick ink/heavy machinery]... Etching or engraving is NOT decisive!

So given the insight so far. What do you think my stamp is (top 3 images)? Is it 481 or 499? I'd like to put the puzzle to rest. I still lean to 499 since the screening/dot effect seems not to show up in the solid inked areas (Top/bottom banners). So if you had to stick this in your stock bok where would you place it (it needs a home).

Thanks

The top part may put you on the wrong foot as it looks like the version of thick ink/heavy machinery (StTdr in Michel] but the scan is not convincing enough:



Certainly the version of thin ink/light cylinders (RaTdr in Michel]:



Still any doubt??? This is photogravure [gerastertes Rakeltiefdruck]!

What Michel says that no screen is visible [Kein Raster sichtbar] is WRONG!!

Nigel,

Rotogravure was a patented name for photogravure [thin ink/light cylinder] around 1910!

The NRM [Nederlandsche Rotogravure Maatschappij] could produce both screened and unscreened photogravure. The unscreened process was a great secret then and was used for stamps of the Vatican [1929], South Africa [pictorials 1929-1948] and Mexico [1936-1937], all stamps printed on Goebel rotaries!