Paper Orientation On Large Banknote Era Stamps

A while ago 51studebaker posted a Scott #159 with a vertical stitch watermark. I noted that I was used to seeing them in a horizontal orientation (on stamps of the 1851-61 period).

Here is the link to that thread.
https://goscf.com/t/42320&SearchTer...ch,watermark

Clark Frazier had this to say:




Since that time I have acquired several large banknote stamps with vertical stitch watermarks and have yet to see a horizontal stitch watermark on a large banknote stamp. All of my examples are either Continental or American Bank Note printings. I am not sure what the significance of that detail is at the moment. Question: Does anybody have a large banknote stamp with a horizontal stitch watermark?

Geesh, I couldn't even get Bart to tell me that nobody cares about stitch watermarks anymore

How about this: Other than Don's #159, who has examples of stitch watermarks in any orientation on a Large Banknote era stamp?

I am also wondering if anybody has any examples on 1861's. They seem to be very scarce?

I have a 24 Cent #153 with a vertically-oriented stitch watermark, and a one cent banknote that I cannot recall the orientation. There is a #153 with S.W. for sale on ebay as well.

I didn't even think to look at the cross section of stitch watermarks available on ebay. Found a #136, so a NBCo stamp, with a vertical stitch watermark. No horizontal stitch watermarks to be found on the Large Banknotes though...

Here is a link to the #136. I really wish people would stop writing on stamps. This example is obscene IMO. The only thing not written on it was a shopping list and things to do

https://www.ebay.com/itm/136A-w-STI...AOSwZlZZ68ck

Just one here, vertical, on a 158.

I have stitch watermarks on various banknote stamps from grilled issues, 1870, up through 1880, and they all run vertically through the stamp.

I have a Scott #190 with an apparent roller cancel that left an odd horizontally oriented stich looking marks, discussed here. No idea what this is.

https://goscf.com/t/39292

I had a 30 cent banknote, a Continental (gray black) that was shorter and wider than typical. I presume that one had paper grain running normal to the typical banknote paper grain. I have come across some #68's in a yellow green that are proportioned the same.

BTW the National BNC reissues of the 1861 and 1869 issues used a paper that shrank more than the original issue paper. The 1861 reissues are shorter than the regular issue, appearing more square, and the 1869 reissues are narrower, appearing more rectangular than the regular issue. I cannot find where either is wider in the other direction, so I don't think it's paper grain that makes the designs smaller. I'm guessing the reissue paper could hold more water and therefore, in addition to enabling a finer impression, resulted in more shrinkage than had from the normal paper.

hello Tipzi,

one question about this: there seems to be a difference of the paper mesh for low values (vertical mesh) and high values (horizontal mesh) of the reissues. So perhaps the design size (more square vs. rectangular as you write) is more depending on the denomination (for both 1861 and 1869 reissue) and not depending on 1861 vs. 1869? Or is the design size not depending on the mentioned paper mesh at all?

I know the designs for 102, 104, 105, 106 and 108 are all shorter than the regular issue. From what I've seen as images, the other denominations are as well. The pictorial reissues being narrower has been known for some time, but I've not verified these since having no grill is the big tip-off. It may well be that the higher denominations are printed on a paper of different grain orientation than the lower, smaller denominations.

thank you. there is an article of Hahn about the paper mesh of the 1869:
http://www.nystamp.org/postal-histo...the-inverts/

I don't really understand if this research (paper mesh and design size) is about 1869 reissue only or also for the 1861 reissue. But of course you're right that for the 1869 the missing grill is the first thing to notice. So until other information I will keep your information (1861 design sizes) and the 1869 information (paper mesh) by Hahn in mind.