Are These 2 Stanps Belgian Precancels?

I have spent several hours on these two stamps this morning, I was buzzing along until I picked up these two:



I have done everything but an image scan to identify these two - I now believe they are precanceled as shown in the clip of the Price List for Precancels from the following website:
http://www.worldstamps.com/pricelist.php?topic=20
Here is the clip:



I still have not located these stamps in the Scott catalog precisely. Still working on identifying these stamps - the Scott numbers in the clip above do not seem to be correct - I am looking in the Belgian catalog, have gone through all of them, I have found stamps that look like the same art work, but they have not matched these two precisely - the best id I have found is the one I clipped above, and then there is this on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Belgium-Co...pe=Precancel These don't seem to match either.

Thanks for any information or help you can give me in identifying these two precisely with Scott numbers. Thank you very much, I hope I am not leaning on the forum too much - please let me know if I am. Julie

Precancels.
Listed in the Belgian Catalogus.

Definitely precancels. Scott only lists the basic stamp and does not list them as precancels, maybe because there are too many different types. Scott doesn't list precancels separately in general. The exception is when the stamp was only issued precanceled like Scott #195-7 (values changed also) or France #707-10.

And of course, if there's no gum on them, they're used. Real mint ones are pretty hard to find in the US.

The response I had, when I enquired on these in 2005

From: http://junior-philatelists.com

"There are many precancels from Belgium. The printed ones are listed
in some foreign catalogs and are collected in Europe in MNH condition.
I collect them used as they are cheaper that way.

There are many more hand-stamped ones. The towns that issued
them are available on a list as are the years of use. You could get
a collection of these totaling more than a thousand different."

If yours is the hand-stamped variety, then it is probbaly NOT listed
in any catalogues. As mentioned, in Europe these are sought out
in mint NH condition, but please yourself - it is your collection.

Blair
Rodney:

Which Special catalogue do you use?

Might I suggest that you try and find a copy of the
Lepingle-Morlion Precancel Catalogue of Belgium,
1980 [aka Catalogue des Preos Belges]
(there may be later editions) weight for shipping (250g).

Blair
Hi,

Another one, if you still can find a copy of it, is the bilingual (Dutch &
French) catalogue, issued in 1997, called "Officiële catalogus van de
voorafgestempelde zegels van België / Catalogue officiel des timbres
préoblitérés de Belgique" covering preo's from 1894 till 1996.

Regards

Frank Daems
Belgium

Again, thank you, both of you. I just love the stamps you show Rod - they are always so nice. Thank you for the information on precancels, I am thinking based on what has been said above that I will not be able to identify these any better - the clip that I posted above must have been for some other belgian precancels, the reason I chose the two that I did was the lion stamp on the front of the 1.50 grey stamp and the horn stamp on the 1958-59 stamp. I am finding the marks to be elusive. Thank you! Julie

The stamps you show are only listed in the specialist Catalogue Officiel de Timbres Poste Belgique

The 40c stamp is cat number PO680, the 1fr 50c could be a number of possibilities depending on paper type - ordinary paper PO801, polyvalent paper (shows up white under UV) PO801P and with blue gum PO801GB

Thank you deltic1575 for telling me which catalog to look for to find these stamps. I am very embarrassed to admit this, but I had only been here a week or so when I posted those stamps, since you posted yesterday the thread percolated back up and I read through it again, after which I went hunting for those two stamps. I have misplaced them, do not know where they are at the current moment which is unacceptable. I have only just recently gotten all of my stamps organized by country and into plastic file envelopes - I went through everywhere that I thought these could be, could not locate them. I am sure they will pop up someday as they just did not walk off on their own - in the meantime this just underscores to me that I have to get these stamps organized into an album - must wait though as I am inundated with work at the moment and cannot spend the time I would like on the stamps. Julie

deltic - "only" is misleading - the US Precancel Stamp Society ref: http://precancels.com publishes an International Precancel Catalog that has pricing in USD and quite complete for Belgium.