1c 1851 Plate 2 Stamps

crickets - anyone want to chime in just on whether it looks like a plate 2 stamp or not?

Sorry I'm too busy to do it now - looks like dark Prussian blue November or December 1856 for sure, definitely plate 2 or 3, Ty II.

rlsny, can you get us a clearer image?
I am thinking maybe 88R1L.

I had a bad parameter set on the previous scan - here's a better one

it's clearly not 88R1L

rlsny, your stamp appears to be 21L2.
Of the three plating marks, the mark in the "O" of "ONE" matches perfectly.

Excellent - thank you.

This one I think is 35L2 but I have no images except the Nienken drawing. Franklin Archive has no copy either and I did not find one on Siegel search.


The marks in "A" match but I do not see the marks in "T" or "G". The is the gap on right ornament "M".

Two erasures to Nienken standard image matches.

What are your thoughts?

jaxsom100 - The stamp you suggested to be 35L2 has an open ornament H. I also think that I see a faint platemark in the "C" of CENTS. Together they match the Neinken map for 58L2.

jaxom100 - Just another comment on your comparison to 35L2 - I don't know what happened with your detail image of ornament N which shows a gap in the upper half, because ornament N looks very complete in the image of the whole stamp.

The other possible match I considered is 80L2, because it also has a very open ornament H. I just don't think it matches as well as 58L2.

I cannot see the resemblance to 58L2. I noticed the error on orn N so I no longer think it is 35L2. I think orn N is going to be a significant plating detail on all stamps. So I looked again and found some interesting comparisons to 39L2. Only copy is from Franklin Archive and there is a scratch in the A so I cannot compare what Neinken has shown there but here are some other comparisons to 39L2.

I just picked up something that I've always wanted to get, as a 1c collector - a Ty IIIA plate 2 stamp, legitimately broken at the top, cleanly. This qualifies it as a Ty IIIA.

It is position 19R2, which now needs to be classified as a swing position II-IIIA, clearly. Neinken even noted that it was 'weak' at the top.

Neinken calls out 198 positions on plate 2 as Ty II, leaving 99R2 as Ty III and 100R2 as a swing II-IIIA (but broken at bottom).

There are a few of these plate 2 8A's out there - not many, but a few that I've seen over the years. They are rare items. Neinken did not document any IIIA positions, other than 100R2. 100R2 becomes broken at the bottom only, and only then on very late impressions. I've seen very few 100R2's that qualify as IIIAs.

The fact that this item came with 4, count-em '4' certificates 2xPFC, 2xPSE, ALL calling this a #8A, and even plated correctly, probably illustrates the fact that to go against Neinken, it helps to have a cert. Well, this has 4. From the scan, I think its pretty obvious, however.



jaxom - Rick - maybe there's a way on the stampsmarter database page, to note somewhere that there is updated "Type" information for a position or positions? Neinken would usually do it either en-masse for the entire plate, or call out each individual position by type in the drawing ...

Txstamp, I put the stamp in the database, changed the type from type II to type II / IIIa and added a note that it is the only position on plate 2 found to be broken at top.

I look forward to receiving your plate 2 scans for the database.
If anyone else is willing to share their plate 2 scans, it would be greatly appreciated.

jaxom - thanks. I think there are a few other positions as such, but we'll just have to keep our eyes open to see them over time.

Rick - check email for Plate 2 scans.