Anthony's Llc Dismal PF Report Card = Follow Up To 10/23/17 Discussion

I wonder if APS or ASDA been in contact with ebay recently over this?

There was a time when ebay was more responsive. The good old days of fighting the good fight. My area was patrolling overpriced album collections specializing mainly in "Big Blue" as an unofficial troubleshooter. I had scores of collections removed as anyone then could accomplish.

http://www.scads.org/ebay/ebay_aps.htm

https://www.linns.com/news/auctions...rograms.html

NEWS On 7/14/2014.... ebay has ended two programs that were created to protect collectors from fake and questionable sales.....


WOW! This is big news to me! A real eye-opener to someone starting up in the hobby in October 2016.

This flys in the face of ebay's false "Buy with Confidence" sales BS. The killing of these watchdogs explains everything! Why Anthony's LLC can exist at all, because ebay allows it proactively/unethically. I'm hoping they are destined for failure with this bad business plan. I feel ebay set a trap!

I thought I was SAFE. Buy w/ conf, buy from a "power seller" (100k feedback on ebay since 1998, so they say), this dealer is close by in the USA (Englewood, NJ), return policy suspect but on any issue would refund cash before getting item back (false trust), but the kicker a Member in Good Standing with ASDA, he committed to a CODE OF ETHICS. Additionally, the only negative feedbacks I could SEE were on international delivery issues (NEVER THOUGHT NEGATIVE REVIEWS WOULD BE DELETED UNILATERALLY - I would have been warned with honest frank issues with his counterfeit, misrepresented, quality issues (uncensored - with reasonable free speech policy).

I'm leaning heavily to being out of ebay for every. I don't trade with a DEVIL and ebay is that by killing off two key watchdog groups that would of had my beginner back but more importantly the Hobby's long-term legs. .

While I also lament the loss of oversight it should be recognized that the way they had it implemented was as bad as their current feedback system.

The philatelic oversight was provided by some good folks who were volunteers but they were also anonymous. So sellers could get listings pulled without even knowing who had an issue with them, this was not fair at all. If the seller tried to push back on the anonymous opinions it put ebay in the position where they would have had to meditate long, arduous debates over details. Details they had no clue about and they had no way to decide who might be correct. ebay was stuck between a rock and a hard place, either blindly support their volunteers or blindly support the sellers who were paying the bills. (And keep in mind that some of the volunteers were very strong-willed philatelic personalities.) Even with using the non-paid help, this was costing ebay overhead and money.

The best solution would be for ebay to hire their own in-house experts; but for every listing category?

So this was a lose-lose situation for ebay. For them, the best decision was to just end the this flawed program. Doing oversight would be a huge cost; if they cannot code a solution chances were small they would support any oversight program.
Don

So much wasted time in threads like these. I buy 99% of my stuff on ebay and I have built a rather nice collection. I don't see my buying patterns changing anytime soon. I have also bought some fantastic stuff from Anthony's. People need to realize it is lack of knowledge that gets them in trouble, not crooked ebay sellers. Lack of knowledge will get you in trouble no matter where you are buying.

Winston,
Of course you have, you have decades of experience. You spent time in the barrel, made costly mistakes and learned from them over the years. Folks with your experience obviously do not see this as an issue, you rely upon your significant experience to give you the best opportunity for a successful purchase.

One perspective is 'I paid my dues and everyone else should do the same'. Other folks may have more of a community perspective and are concerned about the impact to the hobby.
Don

ebay has been a boon to the hobby, not a curse. Before ebay, there were just as many, if not more, collectors being taken by unscrupulous dealers. It is about supply and demand. So long as there are collectors looking to get fleeced there will be someone willing to fill the order. Railing against ebay will not solve that problem.

Ignoring the problem will not solve it either.

I will sound the horn one more time, and then it's on to the next topic.... ebay could be the conduit to catapulting our hobby to the next level, but the sad truth is, they are not. The APS has a code of ethics and puts furthering the hobby at the forefront of their agenda; ebay does not. Yes, if you learn how to traverse the philatelic minefield, ebay can yield dividends. But for most, just like the lottery, it will not. The bottom line is that as long as ebay allows companies like Anthony's to not only prosper, but merely exist, it will not be a philatelic safe haven, especially for the vulnerable novice. Suffice to say, I think most of us reading this know better than to do business with this firm, or others like them.

6 pages & we're having the same conversation - again.




I could not agree more.




Thank you for saying this. It has gone unsaid for too long.

How many of you were ever at a flea market? Stamp show? Sellers have been misleading customers since the dawn of time. Have we ever - once - tried to blame the 'flea market management' for the bad behavior of a table seller? If a dealer sells you something at a show, and misrepresents it, do we blame the 'show organizer'??

Lots of these dodgy sellers are APS members. They have less teeth than ebay. If the APS can't enforce its own rules, how can we expect ebay to do it for them?

I'm certainly not defending ebay, but they are just the flea market owners. And while I believe sellers like these should be shut down - and perhaps some even belong in jail - there has to be some responsibility on the part of the buyers as well.

"A fool & his money are soon parted"

The internet - along with ebay - has eliminated what used to be a broad gap in information - that allowed experts to profit at the expense of the novice. In many areas - especially collectibles.

The information gap has disappeared! Anyone can be an expert - in a very short period of time - there are no more hidden secrets!

If someone is going out & spending $$hundreds - without doing any homework - they are simply being foolish. Less than 5-10 min of research & the names Anthonys & NY Stamps will jump up & scream 'Caution!' at you.

The venue is not the cause or the problem.

Trying to feel sympathy for the novice - and I apologize on behalf of the stamp collecting world - but you really must exercise a bit of judgement & common sense. Just like everything else: start at the shallow end; don't just dive into the deep end without knowing how to swim...

Exactly ! Just like life itself.

I am not aware of any statistics which compares the amount of philatelic fraud being committed pre/post internet. The difference in opinions could be related to opinions about the general health of our hobby. If you look at fraud in the context of 'supply and demand' then it makes sense to think that if the hobby grows, then more fraud is being committed. More hobbyists equates to a bigger 'demand' to drive more unethical incentives. But the opposite is also true, if you think that the hobby is declining than it makes sense to think that fraud could be dropping.

But what about the 'supply' side? Common sense dictates that the total amount of fraudulent material in our hobby is cumulative. In other words, over the decades the amount of newly altered stamps increased each year but it is unlikely that the equivalent amount of existing fraudulent material would be destroyed. So there is the strong likelihood that over time the total amount of fraudulent material in our hobby has increased in the last 150 years.

Additionally, the 'supply' side of this topic has also experienced significant growth due to the larger number of sellers of philatelic material today compared to years past. The total number of people selling philatelic material has exploded since the internet; anyone with extra material started selling online. And of course the issue with the level of expertise of those who started selling online only reinforces the belief that there is more fraud occurring. But if your opinion is that the discussion is limited to true 'dealers', it becomes a bit easier to believe that fraud is the same or lower than in years past.

Lastly, it would be hard to argue that the anonymous nature of the internet has not increased fraud across the board. The statistics for things like identity theft are overwhelming and I assume that none of us would say that identity theft was a bigger issue pre-internet. Ditto for credit card fraud. Let's face it, criminals are lazy (if they weren't, they would be willing to go out and work for their money). It is far easier to sit in your living room in front of the computer drinking beer than it is to get out and work some scam. Todays criminals can setup and run 10 scams in the same amount of time and effort it used to take them to run one.
Don

Obviously it had to increase from 150 years ago, but a tremendous amount of fraudulent material gets recycled. There was a huge amount created 20, 50, 100 years ago that has fooled people for a long time and sometimes still does. People are still creating more, but but most has been around a long time.

YoP gave four reasons above why he felt a level of confidence purchasing from Anthony's on ebay. They were the ebay "Buy With Confidence" schtick, Power Seller designation with 100k feedbacks, lack of negative feedbacks and ASDA Member in Good Standing. I am not aware of any flea markets that have systems deliberately designed to give one a false sense of security. And I am not aware of any flea market that is fee based and thus has no bottom line incentive to give bad actors the boot.

What bothers me the most though are comments which essentially blame buyers lack of education. We want people to enter the hobby and stay. Getting ripped off in the beginning of their journey is more likely to end their participation before it really starts.

Education is fantastic. However, if we want newbies to stick around the environment cannot be accepting of an atmosphere of one having to "pay their dues". Hazing is unacceptable. And philatelic education should be for learning more about the objects we possess and desire not a prerequisite to avoid getting taken for a ride.

Dealers of old are irrelevant to the ebay experience and ebay is not a liitle ol' flea market.

Sorry for the disjointed commentary. I need much more coffee. Happy collecting!