Wanna Buy A Self-Graded Stamp For Only $150?

This is where the seller crossed the line. The value quoted is for a PSE graded stamp. There is more to grading than centering. The stamp should be identified and checked for defects or alterations. Computers haven't fully caught up yet, but state of the art is to have a Video Spectral Comparator (VSC) to find hidden flaws and an XRF device to assess X-ray fluorescence. Someday, devices that accurately assess color may also become available.

Nuneric grades are limited in the ebay Coins & Banknotes category and must reference certificates from approved expertizing services. Should the Stamps category not have similar guidelines?

Question: How can the upper margin on the slabbed stamp be wider than the side margins, and then narrower than the side margins on the stamp shown on the certificate. Something is not right.

I see straight edge at right. The bottom is perfed. The elephant in the room did not escape my notice. For a seller who expects to be quite well paid for his stamps and service, he posts poor images.

This is a very dangerous area and a slippery slope we're going down. It's far more than "He is entitled to hang out his shingle and sell his wares, like all of us."

Given all the recent clamor on this board about how novice/unwary collectors need to be protected from charlatans, I'm surprised at the support for this seller's actions.

1. The name on the label is "On the Spot Grading & Authentication, LLC". By using the word "authentication" he is claiming to be an expertizer, much more than just running a stamp image through a numeric grading algorithm. What are his credentials?

2. Selling self-graded/expertized material is an inherent conflict of interest, and in my opinion should be avoided. We've had discussions about this topic before on the board, and I know that others will disagree, as there are some reputable dealers who sell self-expertized material. The problem isn't those dealers specifically, but when bad apples start getting into the mix.

A little bit of history since it falls outside of stamps, but is completely relevant:

When I first started using ebay in 1998 on into the mid-2000s, my focus was buying and selling coins, primarily non-U.S. coins. At that time there were no restrictions on coin certification services. This led to a boom in "third party grading services" (TPGs) that were nothing of the sort. Dealers started self-slabbing their own inventory and passing them off as "certified" coins.

Fake and damaged coins would appear as legit slabbed coins. Cleaned sliders (AU or low-grade uncirculated coins) started materializing in "MS70" (the highest grade possible, i.e., "perfect") slabs from grading companies that appeared overnight.

There were so many complaints that it led to the policy now in place on ebay with coins, where coins can only be sold as certified or with a numeric grade if they are encapsulated in holders from NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and ICG. Coins in holders from any other company can only be sold without any reference to grading, certification or a numeric grade.

I would bet my next paycheck that the seller in question here is simply taking his own stamps and running them through this software only, and not looking at flaws or authenticity. The sample size is too small, and currently only stamps that are not faked, but what happens when he starts passing off bogus stamps as legit under his "Authentication" company?

This is NOT a good thing, and should not be encouraged.

cfrphoto, you make a good point. "Raw" stamps on ebay are not subject to the same grading rules as coins and banknotes, as you know. Whether they should be, which would require slabbing of stamps, is a matter worth debating. The market quotes for PSE graded stamps are publically available, he is benefitting from this but I do not see how he crossed a line in his description.

archerg - correct! Only one straight edge - thanks!

The stamp displayed in the first picture of the listing is NOT the same stamp on the "certificate".

That's what I told the seller

The following from the PSE SMQ Vol 14, No, 1 should be self-explanatory

And... seller just contacted me, twice, was polite. Will see what he does.

There are market-makers who have made obscene profits having superior examples of common stamps graded, it naturally follows that others will try similar approaches.

revenuecollector: I value your view, which comes from personal experience. Please indulge me in a brief rant.

cfrphoto: yes self-explanatory, and also a bit full of itself at the same time... So far I've never seen a cert that was also a warranty - they are all opinions. But having, and following, standards is essential.

I may sound like I am supporting the seller, what I am really doing is pointing out the stamp seller is within the bounds of ebay rules for listing. He has software to check and document centering, so what?

EVERY stamp listing on ebay makes some claim of identity and genuineness unless documented otherwise. I could printout a lot I win on ebay, it is a contract, and return on that basis if breached.

And, If I list a stamp for sale, I'm interested in getting money for it, no conflict there. I see no pretense of expert, professional, third-party numerical grading in the listings. The documentation is just that, "I ran it though the program, here's a print showing the number I got". Is it deceptive? No. Value - nothing, to me.

One more thing - I am glad I got an education in stamps, sometimes through the school of hard knocks, should we bubble-wrap new collectors from experiencing the same?

Do you think that new collectors are the majority of the ones buying these stamps?

In the end, education is the key but other than posts about ebay and bad dealers little is being added to the discussion.

I place some of the responsibility with the developer of the software. I think he is a good guy but have pointed out to him on multiple occasions that his product name and marketing is misleading (at best). It is NOT a grading application, it is a 'centering determination' application.

But of course a novice will assume that he/she are grading their stamps, it says so in the application they purchased. I assume that a hobbyists might see that true graded stamps bring a higher market price. They see an application which markets itself as being able to grade stamps. They do the math and think, 'hey, I can buy this application and it will more than pay for itself'.

So the root cause of this issue, in my opinion, has to involve the manufacturers of applications that are misleading consumers. As has been pointed out, grading is more than an algorithm which calculates centering. Until applications can identify watermarks, paper types, faults, flaws, and other stamp characteristics which go into the hobby accepted definition of certification and grading opinion then they are nothing more than a small piece of the puzzle.

Folks who support the manufacturers of these apps should make their opinions known to them and ask them to cease marketing them as grading apps.
Don

Anytime you pay a premium for someone else's opinion, you are paying for the true value of the stamp PLUS the value of the opinion. You are renting their current thoughts on an item which can and will change over time just like a certificate.

The software program under discussion can assign a grade to a "315" that is actually a trimmed 304.