1c 1857 Plate 5 Stamps

Based on what can be seen in the photo, I think the blurs in the left margin make 4L8 a better bet.

Sorry, it was a typo - I meant 8L5. I still that looks right.

Sorry, rlsny, but I do not think you have a Type Va stamp there. The right-side ornaments, especially Ornament R, are not complete enough. Also, the blob of color in the N of CENT shown in Neinken for 8, 9 and 10L5 is quite prominent - your stamp does not have it. See attached photo of a strip of three, 8-10L5. I still believe this to be 4L8 (compare the Doporto image).

OK, something odd is going on. I searched the stamp smarter plating database by cat number. 8L5 is listed at type Va but cat 24.

Weird.

Here is the picture there for 8L5 in the database. It certainly looks like my stamp.

Type Va is #24--it doesn't have its own number.

Actually, the image you show here differs from your stamp in the two crucial ways I mentioned earlier (see arrows).

dudley - I'm impressed in how well you've been able to pick out the subtle differences in plates 5 through 10. I can usually identify the relief, but that leaves an awful lot of Neinken maps to search through if I can't decide on the plate. I wondered if you looked at the example I posted on 10/24/2021 that I thought was a 81L5? Have I gotten it right? I apologize for interrupting your dialog with risny, but maybe you could write a little about how you discern the differences in these plates.

Thanks for this help dudley. I read the Scott description more carefully and I see now where Va comes in on plate 5 and I see the issue about how plate 5 has some Scott 24s that are more complete. Confusing to be sure. Thanks for your help.

rlsny, you are most welcome.

widglo, thank you for the kind words. WRT your 81L5 stamp, I actually do not think that is the correct position. The marks you indicate along the right side of the design are present on many well-impressed images from multiple plates. However, I think you might well have a Plate 5 Type Va. Check out position 43R5, in particular the horizontal blurs at bottom and the marks under the O of ONE. Your stamp shows a single dot here instead of a blur per Neinken, but an example of 43R5 on cover in the Seigel database also shows what looks like a single dot. Unfortunately, I do not own copies of either 81L5 or 43R5 for comparison.

As far as discerning the different Type V plates is concerned, it's a matter of playing the odds based on experience more than anything. Aside from the sure-bet indicators like the dash-in-head of Plate 9 Relief C or the shoulder curls of Plate 7 Relief F, there are certain "looks" that make one plate more likely than another. Thus for a well-impressed brightly colored stamp I might look first to Plate 5. A poorly-impressed stamp with mottling and blistering at the bottom would lead me first to Plate 7. Examples with horizontal scratches are likely to come from Plate 8 or 9. Stamps with vertical streaks in the margins and a filmy appearance are likely from Plate 10. And in the absence of any of these particular indicators I always start with Plate 8 -- it is my impression (unsupported by any hard data) that there are just more Plate 8 stamps out there. As an indicator of this I am much farther along in completing Plate 8 than I am with the other Type V plates. Go figure.

dudley - Thanks for taking another look at my relief "E" patient that I thought might be 81L5. I am so pleased that you could find a much better match with 43R5. I spent a few more hours myself comparing the Siegel example on cover, together with other relief "E" positions that I could find, and I'm convinced that you've nailed it. The Siegel cover was from the Neinken and Wagshal collections, so I presume it's been plated correctly. I took some better photomicrographs of my patient (the ones I posted were all overexposed), and it's easier to see more of the blur under the "O". If you'd like copies for your own reference, just shoot me an email.

It's been a very good exercise for me, because I didn't appreciate until doing a close examination, how very close in appearance some type Va positions are to type V stamps.

Here is another stamp I acquired from the last HR Harmer sale. It was unplated, but I thought that from the sharpness of the impression that it might come from Plate 5. I've plated it to 15L5 based on Doporto's example; it lacks many of the fine scratches, but I can't find a better match among Relief "B", Type V plate positions.

I've changed my mind about the last stamp I posted. I now believe is a better match with 13L5 than it is with 15L5. Several of the scratches on the lower left corner match Doporto's example for 13L5.

I acquired another stamp that I think also comes from plate 5, and it is also a Type V, "B" relief. All of the Type V stamps on the 2nd row of the left pane are quite similar, but the blurring in "POST" of POSTAGE is different on this stamp than my previous example, and I think the best match for it is with 11L5. If anyone else has an example from this row, it would be great to see them. For 14L5 I've found only a Neinken map, and it doesn't show much detail.

widglo, the cancel on this stamp obscures the plating marks found in the O of ONE for 11L5. I don't see the diagonal scratches in the upper right ornaments of 11L5 in your stamp. Can you see them under magnification? Here is a copy of this position for comparison.

dudley - If I am correct that my two #24's are both Plate 5 stamps, then they can only come from six possible positions. I can not, nevertheless, plate either of them convincingly. Neither of them match exactly the examples on Doporto's site, and the Neinken maps are a little too sketchy for me to say that they match a particular position. I'm assuming that if I find matching plate scratches, that supports a match, but if I don't find them that doesn't eliminate the possibility of a match.

I've posted below high resolution photos of the top label and of the right upper corner of the Mobile stamp. I see a few faint scratches in the latter. If you email me, I can send high resolution images of both stamps.

I spotted another #24 that I thought might be a plate 5 (type V) example based on the impression and the presence of blisters on the bust. I wanted another good example with blisters and the stamp was pretty inexpensive, so I bought it. I am plating it to 32L5, but it could possible come from any of the 31-35L5 positions. I just can't find enough examples to compare it with, and I don't think it is completely incompatible with any of the Neinken maps in that range. I'd love to hear anyone else's ideas.

widglo46 - take a look at 72L8. The blur on the hair and the mark in the 'E' of cent as well as the blotches on the shoulder.