Is This A Genuine Mint #12?

Wow, just wow.

Speaks for itself. Wow.

When you can't get a Cert, go for the passive voice testimonial:

"... many experienced dealers or collectors could not see anything wrong."

Kinda makes me wonder why even bother...

I've reported this to ebay. Everyone else should as well...

Wow.....

After all the information he received on here, he had the audacity, the gall to say that experienced collectors didn't see anything wrong?

Wow......

"I think I am going to return it. I think it's not worth it to send it to PF for a cert, right? There is no chance for it to be a genuine #12. Correct?"

His own words in this thread. Then make the comment that if a firm offers a no opinion that it's not grounds for return.

Anything for money I guess.

After seeing this, I for one would be in favor of Mr. Tang being blocked from SCF. Why would anybody want to answer his questions after seeing this?

Maybe he just stuck it online to try to get his money back. It was posted for 29 days, so it will just sit there, not auction. If he does not get his money back, he will take what loss he has to, I guess. He obviously got no positive response from wherever he bought it.

Wow....just WOW! Not something I would be in the market for, or afford anyway, but I will remember his seller name and steer clear of it if something in any of my areas of interest pops up. If he's gonna pass this clunker on without batting an eye, all it does is make me wonder what else might be wrong with anything else he is selling.

FYI-I seriously doubt that the PF would offer no opinion on this. It's either a #12 or a proof, and they will be able to tell the difference. As for "experienced dealers" not being able to tell the difference, that does not surprise me either.

It's just my opinion, but if Tang has any scruples left he/she will take down the ebay post, eat the loss, and attempt to minimize the negative impression left by having listed it in the fashion done. This would be a positive step toward maintaining his reputation in a hobby where reputation still matters and word travels fast.

Thanks for all the comments. I didn't lie. I did take it to a stamp show asking a long time US dealer about this stamp. He didn't find anything wrong after he examined the stamp with an magnifier. I also asked an experienced collector and he think it looks more like a stamp and than a proof, and suggested that I get a cert.

Even it is an altered proof, it has its value and some people collect forgeries. So I put it on ebay. And my words are clear: possible altered proof and sold as is. This is the best conclusion I can draw from all the options I received.

I have taken down this listing.

You did lie because you did not disclose that everybody here told you that it was an altered stamp or proof. You only disclosed that which helped you sell the stamp.

Tang, "long time US dealer" could be any of 50 unscrupulous dealers who's only interest is moving their stock. I've found over the 40 plus years of being around a lot of dealers they don't know as much as you think they would. They just don't have the time to invest in learning and research. There are a lot of seasoned collectors on here that saw this from a blurry scan. It was hard to recognize either. If truly still in doubt send it in for a cert before putting a misleading listing for sale on ebay or Facebook. You don't want a bad reputation, it will ruin you. Word travels quick now a days. Several of us are on all the same Facebook pages you are. Hopefully you took the post down and didn't sell it.
My recommendation is to put it in watermark fluid and take a pic and then take a pic while it's still wet with light under the stamp. A lot of alterations will show. Same with using UV lights sometimes.