Customizable Album Pages?

You may have seen some of the free album pages that have been published on Stamp Smarter. I developed these using Adobe LiveCycle Designer for a number of reasons but a few of the more intriguing features are that it supports 'form fields' and 'data connections'.

To understand the 'form field' feature you can take a look at this album page (linked below) for Coil PNC strips of three; it has form field under each pair that allow you to type in any catalog number (or other info). Click on the area under each pair to type info. Is this something that anyone thinks they might like to see implemented on album pages?
http://www.stampsmarter.com/Learnin...tNumCoil.pdf

The 'data connection' feature is even more powerful. The PDF file would look for a data connection to automatically populate these fields every time it opens. For example, I have this working on my computer using a SQL database as the connection, it automatically populates all the catalog numbers with Scott numbers from one of my databases. The data connection could be one of many file types including Access database, XML, etc. And of course the data connection file could contain catalog numbering system you might desire; Scott, SG, Unitrade, etc.

The value here is that folks could easily develop (and trade) the data connection files. This resolves the issue with any copyright infringement with the catalog publishers and self-printed album pages. I would offer a data connection template that folks could follow to build their own personalized files.
Don

Very nice work.

And I don't think that no one cares. Rather, I think that the mention of "data connection" and "database" may be scaring people off.

It is a very nice feature. The biggest drawback as I see it is the price for the software.
First step would be to get a community going, but I guess that's why you started this thread :-)

Users will not have to buy anything, the only thing they will need is a way to view a PDF (most folks use one of teh many free PDF readers available).

Don

What I meant is if users wanted to create their own pages using the same methodology, I assume they have to purchase Adobe LiveCycle Designer?

Ah, I understand. But the most important 'take away' here is that it is possible to develop album pages that have support catalog numbers without infringing upon any publishers copyright. This issue has long been the loudest concern with self-printed album pages. So here is a solution that is far less expensive than licensing catalog numbers. Chris (cjpalermo1964) has opinioned that a numbering system does not fall under copyright protection and I trust his legal experience. But this alone does not stop publishers from starting legal actions and running off anyone who tries.

So there is a solution at hand that is easily within reach of anyone who desires; it is a no brainer for anyone who developers album pages to head in this direction. I would also add that Adobe LiveCycle Design is the correct tool for developing any PDF form. It is silly that we still have so many 'hard copy' PDF forms in this hobby. Who the heck wants to download a PDF form, print it, fill it out by hand, scan it, and then email it back to someone? Design an interactive form with fields that can be entered on your computer and can calculate totals if needed.

So investing in an app that will develops real PDFs instead of simply converting a static Word file into a PDF helps move our hobby into this century.
Don

An excellent solution Don, but just to be clear, it is not really an issue for most people who are free to use whatever catalogue numbers they like and for any purpose, it only becomes a problem when distributing the pages publicly - which is something that both you and I do.

Also of course, it only seems be a problem with the Scott numbers, most other catalogue publishers either condone the usage or turn a blind eye.
Actually I am rather puzzled by Scott's (Amos publishing) attitude. Numbers without a catalogue to refer them to are pretty much meaningless, so if anything I would have thought that they would encourage album pages using their numbering system in the expectation that it would lead to increased catalogue sales.
Clive

So far, Scott has defended in court and generally has done well so while many lawyers claim more free use, they have yet to win a significant battle in court where it actually counts. Deep pockets may be required.

The Scott/Krause lawsuit ended with Krause being able to use Scott numbers but not in the same catalogue. They provided a conversion booklet. The other aspect was that Scott was supposedly obligated to license the use to anyway in a consistent manner. Krause supposedly had a top patent attorney.

Mystic obviously reached an agreement with Scott I bet they get some royalty for every album sold just as StampManage pays Scott to use.

"Is this something that anyone thinks they might like to see implemented on album pages?"
Yes. That function of adding catalogue numbers is really an excellent idea. And I suppose enough room could be provided to allow adding brief identifying information. I imagine it's a lot of extra work, but it's a great idea. Of course, this is useful only prior to printing pages out, but that's obvious. After you've printed your pages out, you wouldn't much care anymore.

I don't understand the data connection feature, but I think you're saying you can automatically change catalogue numbers from one catalogue's numbers to another's. But if you're already printed out your pages, and that's the whole point of this, your numbers on the pages are frozen. So what exactly is the advantage of this, I wonder, other than me changing all the labels on my pages from, say, Gibbons to Scott numbers before I print them out and freeze the pages? And how many people would want to even do that? Or am I missing the whole point?

DrewM,
Unfortunately Amos Publishing, who publish the Scott catalogues will prevent anyone from distributing album pages containing Scott numbers under the threat of litigation unless they pay a licensing fee.

As a result, 51studebaker who creates and distributes some very nice albums has been unable to include the Scott catalogue numbers in his albums. This is thus a method for the end user to add the Scott numbers to the album pages prior to printing with little additional effort.

A useful side effect of 51studebaker's method is that someone could choose to include an alternate set of catalogue numbers e.g Gibbons rather than Scott if they so choose.

Clive

I think this is excellent for two reasons:

1. It would allow you to avoid Amos Legal
2. You can use whatever numbering system you like with your pages.

I've gotten a few complaints from US collectors that my Ukraine pages do not use Scott numbers, but instead use MICHEL. Being able to insert the numbering system you want onto an album page is pretty cool. I would definitely use this, if I could find a way to make this work with Scribus.

I like the idea of using XML files and having users trade XML files outside the site that hosts the pages.

Amos is very unwilling to license their numbering system to anyone, except Mystic, who spends a lot of money on advertising with them. I tried to get a license for my Ukraine pages, and they told me they would not grant me a license, because they consider me a competitor, since they make a Ukrainian stamp album.

When I made my Doctor Who stamp album pages, I reached out to Stanley Gibbons asking for permission to use SG numbers on the pages I was giving way for free on my blog. It was only going to be for the Doctor Who pages and I was not going to sell them. They also refused.

When I reached out to MICHEL, they responded within 48 hours and sent me a PDF contract that I had to print out, sign, scan and email back to them. I also mailed them back the original signed copy. They required that I include one page in the supplement about MICHEL with certain wording. I sent sample pages to them via email. And, within a week, I was legally using MICHEL numbers on my pages.

The only real "issue" with this is varieties. I don't think all the big catalog makers all give stamps the same major vs minor numbering. So, a page can be laid out for Scott numbers, but the payout doesn't fit Stanley Gibbons numbering.

But overall, this is an AWESOME idea.

Supposedly the Scott vs Krause lawsuit ended with an agreement to not be arbitrary in licensing. As always, it just takes a lawyer.

When did that lawsuit happen?

Ok, I sort of found a way to do this in Scribus.

There's a third party tool someone makes called Scribusgen that adds a kind of mail merge feature to Scribus. This could be used to generate a PDF with catalog numbers inserted from the file of your choice. The data just needs to be in a CSV file.

Here is a YouTube video demonstration:


*** Edited by Staff to add YouTube tags. Please use them in the future. We prefer embedded video. ***

And here is the script itself:

https://github.com/berteh/ScribusGenerator

I'm going to need to play with this.

It would be interesting to see how it would turn out if anyone actually put in the time, money, and effort to challenge Scott. My personal opinion is that Scott would lose, but I'm not a copyright attorney.

If you're interested in reading, there was a case out of the Third Circuit about 15 years ago that held that a catalog system for part numbers wasn't copyrightable. Facts were slightly different, but if you're interested, here's a summary, and here's the actual opinion.