I'm Completely Speechless.

Ron, I guarantee that ebay pulls nothing in the stamp section simply because it is a fake. They couldn't care less.

I sent the seller a message. His reply:

New message from: goldbaron357 (830Purple Star)
The thing is, the margins are wider than if they would be trimmed perfs. I just can't do stamps on ebay, will take them elsewhere. I can prove with every method I have that the stamp is too big to be trimmed and not show some trace of perfs.

As I just had it listed, yes, I was willing to let people assume it was trimmed, because it indeed is silk paper.

But I don't need trouble. My shops are all named the same.

I am willing to deal on the premise the stamps are faulty because that's the only way you don't get roasted alive. But when things measure proper, what, I'm going to deny what is before my eyes and everyone else's?

There are LOTS of varieties not listed in catalogues. A very old expert very very old expert told me that if they were to list ALL the varieties, you would need a warehouse to store the catalogue. So they slowly let some new ones be added over time.

But you can't enlighten such narrow minded people.

Your message has been the kindest I've seen in a long time, thank you for that. If you have an offer in mind I'll relist it for your offer as a buy it now.

This guy is clueless. Full stop.

Those margins are NOT sufficient. Technically speaking, given the variance in perforating, no single can 100% be confirmed as genuine, but the margins in question are too small. Then there's the silk threads. If it is indeed silk paper (which I'm not firmly convinced of given the images), it absolutely cannot be a part perf. Part perfs were early printings, created at the latest 1864 (some might put the limit in 1863), and silk paper wasn't used until 1870.

Well James, they obviously listened. I went to look at the newer listing and it is no longer available to view. Gone again.

Mike

"Technically speaking, given the variance in perforating, no single can 100% be confirmed as genuine"

That is actually not correct; there are other points of identification. The size of the margins is just one item on a list. It's only important in conjunction with those other items. In this case the paper is wrong for both part perfs and silk just to begin with. So the margins don't even really enter into it.

When I zoom in on those 2 "silk threads" the seller has circled, to me they appear to be marks made with a sharpened .5 mm pencil lead. This is so particularly for the one running off the top of the paper. I could be wrong, but it looks like there are highlights and shadows made by the pressure of the application.

Bart - I guarantee that ebay does pull items in the revenue section because they are fakes!

Bart, you're missing my point. Given the poor perforation quality of the 1st issue revenues, even if the margins, the paper, the color, the impression, the date, all align with what a legitimate part perf looks like, one cannot be 100% certain that a single has not been trimmed.

It might be 99.5%; it might be "beyond a reasonable doubt"; it might be above the generally accepted tolerances for the hobby, but it will never be 100%, simply because of the monster misperfed jumbos and margin copies that exist.

I think you are overestimating the number of jumbos that could be trimmed to make part perfs just a bit.

Ron, there are honest people who will remove items if asked, but ebay simply does not care.

This thread was brought to my attention from a member of the stamp dealer community, and I would like to step in as the category manager for Stamps on ebay. We will not remove items unless there are in clear policy violation, and/or significantly not as described.

We in fact do care what is being listed to ensure that the inventory that is being offered is correctly ID'ed as best as possible by the seller and look to educate sellers if they have described something incorrectly.

For those that frequent this forum, I would like to work with you, not against you, to help better the overall site experience.

Please reach out to me at shalupka@ebay.com and we can start a dialogue about how we can improve ebay for the hobby.

Welcome Steve,
We disallow the posting of email addresses but considering the magnitude of importance for the service you may be able to provide we will leave it for now.

Feel free to use the search function to find thousands of posts which call out mis-described, faked, and counterfeit ebay listings which have previously been posted. Also feel free to check out the database of several thousand ebay listing here http://stampsmarter.com/BuyingOnlin..._ViewDB.html

This community has been fighting the absolutely abysmal oversight that ebay has previously offered in the Stamp category over the last 4-5 years (since the EMR program was dissolved). It has damaged our hobby and ebay reputation in the Stamp category. Trying to restore faith with many buyers will be an uphill climb for you by I am glad that you are willing to try.

Frankly I think that the correct solution is for ebay to properly vet the accounts, limit multiple accounts, and prevent the selling/transfer of existing accounts. Lastly, there is the issue of ebay's totally ridiculous Rating System. ebay's Rating System is now widely recognized as being nothing more than a marketing tool which only serves to help ebay. Not only is the system being gamed by many, but ebay's willingness to remove some feedbacks results in a total invalidation of the system.

But any help at this point is better than nothing and I truly hope that you are here to make a difference and not just lip service.
Don

Where to start.

Steve,

Thank you very much for stepping forward and painting the huge target on yourself - very brave of you!

You are about to see a deluge of comments on how ebay can better the Stamp categories. Since I just happen to be one of the first to reply, I will throw my request out there for you to consider.

Shill bidding is a significant issue and there is absolutely no doubt ebay could put a stop to it quickly if ebay makes the decision to try. I invite you to search for the Philip Ryle/Cartel comments on this website. This convicted felon has been listing on ebay for years and has cost consumers thousands of dollars through his repeated shill bid tactics. Despite this community not having inside access to your databases, we have identified numerous ebay names he has and continues to use, despite being a guest of Her Majesty's prison system. Several key indicators should pop red flags from your end:

- "Based in United Kingdom", but the "Item Location" is in the US
- Rolling unsold lots over to different ebay IDs

All of the other behind the scenes security things your algorithm should have picked up.

Be aware the skeptics on this website (and elsewhere) believe as long as ebay gets their cut, it isn't important to ebay.

The Cartel did a great deal of damage to ebay's reputation. A few bad sellers have left a bad impression and several of us refuse to buy from these sellers, even when they have material we want. Probably a very tiny percent of the money you made from the folks that did buy, but you still have sellers listing obviously modified (trimmed perfs) material they know is bogus.

As an internal exercise, ask yourselves why you allowed "numis_phil*" to sell material. I am quite happy to see it is no longer a registered user.

As a bonus question to earn back trust, provide a list of all accounts you can trace to this account. If you can't, your problem is far bigger than you realize. If we can do it from our end, your security folks should have picked up on it long ago.

Again, thank you for stepping up and I genuinely hope you can help clean up these obvious (to us) bad actors.

StateRevs

I'll throw my two cents in.

If somebody is selling a couple dozen five-figure classic US with certificates as a lot, you can bet they're peddling photos or copies and not the real thing.

We also need to discuss the "report it" button and why after using it countless times nothing, absolutely nothing, ever comes from it. Can anyone from ebay's side explain the mechanics or flow once that button is used?

I for one left ebay long ago when it comes to stamps and have put my purchasing resources into buying from brick and mortar dealers as well as real auction houses. It did not have to be this way if ebay had given a hoot about the rampant fraud and misrepresentation that takes place on a regular basis. ebay needs to go a long way at this point to ever recover a portion of the trust that has been lost and I am far from being alone in feeling this way. I am very cynical at this juncture and I have every reason to be.