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Victoria 1901: 2-D Naish Without Watermark

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 11/30/2018   9:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jimjamtwo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I think this is quite a find. This is the 1901 revived Naish design. It should have the V4 watermark, but no watermark is to be seen. Does anyone know if other examples are known? There's nothing about an unwatermarked variety on the Stamps of Victoria website.


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Valued Member
Australia
177 Posts
Posted 12/01/2018   06:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StevieG to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp shown looks more like the Charles Naish design from 1880-84. The modified Naish design is based on a later design (1885) that has the value "2" on both sides of the stamp half way up. It also has the "secret letters" in each corner. A and C in the top left and right and C and E in the bottom left and right. Not sure why there is no watermark.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 12/01/2018   07:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Stevie G. The Naish design was brought back for one printing (issued in January 1901). Scroll down the page to find it here ("Two Pence"):
http://www.stampsofvictoria.com/01-12issues.php
After this, the word POSTAGE was added down both left and right sides.

My theory is that, if this was the first Commonwealth printing, an insufficient quantity of watermarked paper may have been available or the printers may have simply made the odd mistake due to inexperience.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 12/01/2018 07:12 am
Valued Member
Australia
177 Posts
Posted 12/01/2018   6:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StevieG to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Jimjamtwo. I've found the stamp in question that you refer to and you're right. Kellow's book states that there were two printings which totalled and estimated at 5,000,000 stamps. The first were issued in Jan as you said. They exist in both normal and inverted watermarks. No mention of unwatermarked varieties is mentioned, although he does state that archival records are scant.
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Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 12/01/2018   10:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info, StevieG.

Does Kellow mention any examples of unwatermarked Commonwealth issues at all?
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Valued Member
Australia
177 Posts
Posted 12/02/2018   06:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StevieG to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jimjamtwo,
I had a look through Kellow's book and there is no mention of the use of unwatermarked paper in the Commonwealth Period. It is, however, a very interesting period in the Stamp Issues from Victoria. Cheers.

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Australia
1692 Posts
Posted 12/02/2018   09:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob041256 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi jimjamtwo

I'll be speaking to Geoff Kellow at the next ACCC meeting (Australian Commonwealth Collector's Club) on December 17, I will show him the image and will ask him if he knows about the stamp.

Rob
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Edited by Rob041256 - 12/02/2018 09:56 am
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 12/02/2018   5:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Rob!

Stevie, I believe there was an unwatermarked NSW stamp, the 4d Cook. I think it was an emergency printing and is very rare.
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Australia
975 Posts
Posted 12/03/2018   02:22 am  Show Profile Check 64idgaf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 64idgaf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can you put the stamp face down, dampened with some lighter fluid?

It is difficult to determine whether or not there is a watermark from such an overexposed image.
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Posted 12/03/2018   08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have a camera, so I can't, but I did use lighter fluid to check this stamp for a watermark. (Or did you mean on the scanner bed?)

By the way, the image of the reverse was scanned exactly the same way as the front. I don't know why it comes out like that.

I do not own a Signoscope and it's always possible that one can be seen with that technology.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 12/03/2018 08:59 am
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Australia
4031 Posts
Posted 12/03/2018   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Had a Australia KGV penny red that the watermark could not be seen by 3 people using light fluid and a digital microscopy.

It ended up in a position to get a certificate while at an auction house when the KGV's were being describe for their next auction and 1 watermark was found present in this penny red. So close but not close enough.

Some of these watermark can sure hide themselves!
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Australia
156 Posts
Posted 12/03/2018   10:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add langtounlad to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
jimjamtwo

Check the menus on your scanner software. Your software may have an auto-correct function and sometimes these are set by default. If you find such a function switch it off when scanning stamps.

Regards
Frank
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Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 12/04/2018   05:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the tip, Frank.

Do you know what technique was used to finally spot the watermark, KGV?
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1375 Posts
Posted 12/04/2018   06:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
could this be a double lined "A"?
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Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 12/04/2018   08:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, if it were, it would still make it a good find as this stamp was issued only with the V4 watermark. V4 was replaced with the Crown over A watermark in 1905, at least on the 2d lilac (whose design had changed by then through the addition of POSTAGE). Thus it would be historically impossible.



I do not know what these darker areas are actually. When you look at the back of the stamp, you can't see any such areas. It's very white with the ink from the cancels showing through.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 12/04/2018 08:50 am
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Posted 12/04/2018   09:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ok, as you notice I am not an expert in this region :), I just saw a double-lined letter and thought it might be an "A". But it also would match nicely to the "V" you show.

actually you can see those lines also in your original image.
of course I don't say that this is the proof, you still have to check in watermark fluid, maybe this area.
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