Early Hawaii Inter-Island Help

I am looking at these stamps as a part of lot on ebay right now and cannot seem to find these two in Scott classic specialzed. I am not very familiar with early Hawaii and especially these.
I am not asking if they are authentic necessarily, but just what Scott #?
I cannot find the combination of words, use of period after the word postage on the 2c, Uku Leta on the right side, etc.
I even found a research paper on this series of stamps and don't see anything matching there either.

Maybe the 2c is #20?

I am sure someone here will set me straight.

Thank you in advance.

If real, 1 cent appears to be #12

If real, 2 cent appears to either 16, 20 0r 24. I would not buy without certs.

Check the Post Office in Paradise web site: http://www.hawaiianstamps.com/ They have a strong section on forgeries.

Take a look at Siegel.

https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...e+16%2C+2009

I think the 2c is forgery Two- cent "C" from the PO in paradise.
Just my quick take.

They are both forgeries and not very good ones.

The 2c is most definitely fake. It's grainy printing with the genuine very clearly printed, and even looks more litho than typographed. The lettering is too heavy. The period after POSTAGE and LETA exist on the genuine. Paper color is closest to #16 (grayish) but looks too thick and therefore wrong; genuine paper for this is quite thin and somewhat translucent.

The 1c is a very good forgery of #12 (to me). There are no genuine without a period/stop after 1 CENT. This doesn't match either printing/does not plate so it can't be genuine. Paper is again probably too thick. Unfortunately, this is not a Sperati forgery, which would be worth money; he didn't forge this particular stamp.

Great info as always and I thought this would be the case.
Interesting how these are offered, part of a bigger lot and not called out as high value or rare.
But one never knows on ebay.

It's not just ebay. There are quite a few sellers of collectibles out there who don't know and don't care, and also don't want to know about what they sell, including some sellers recommended by SCF members. They'll probably be willing to refund if what you bought was fake, but what about the next guy?

Question: Who would purchase these types of items without a certificate?

If you mean Hawaii Numerals, then stupid me? Virtually all positions are known and recorded photographically. So plating is the key. The book by Westerberg shows them. The Speratis are copied photographically but their distinct characteristics are known. I've seen real Numerals and the paper also has been very hard to match by forgers and I think would be even more so today. Obviously, just looking at a scan won't give a buyer the whole story.

I wouldn't buy these blind, stuck in a lot or collection hoping they were genuine.