Question On Expertising...

I understand that there are minimum fees for having stamps expertized. For example, the APS charges, if memory serves, a minimum of $20 to members for each item). Beyond that, all the services charge a percentage of catalogue value.

So...if I want to have a US Scott 114 certified, I can expect to owe the APS a minimum of 20-Samolians. But what if, neatly perched upon that 114 sits a Waterbury fancy cancel? Clearly, this stamp is worth a tad more than a basic used 114.

How are the fees handled by the expertising services in such a case? I did see on the PF application, albeit poorly explained, that they have a $50 minimum for cancels, but nowhere do I see on any of the three major services' websites here in the US detailed information on how they would charge for a stamp such as this.

I'm hoping someone here happens to know, saving me a bunch of phone calls / emails. Any takers?

Pretty sure that if you are having it certified as a 114 then the cancel will not come into play. IF you send it in to have the cancel certified then the $50 applies.

The cancel will still apply, since if it is genuine it will have a major impact on the value. My experience is that the cost of the cert will be based on a reasonable expectation of the value of the item.

They will not charge you for the cancel if it was not submitted by you as being the focus of the certification. Of course, the best way to find out is to contact them directly.

How could it NOT be the focus? It's the difference between a stamp that cats $16 and a stamp that is potentially worth hundreds or more. Do you really expect them to ignore something of such philatelic importance????

I believe if you want them to comment on the cancel then you need to request that.

Is this a "what if" question or is there an actual cancel involved? There are many Waterbury cancellations which do not have a high value. Without seeing the cancel in question, it is difficult to say whether a higher fee would be assessed or not.

I'm thinking a higher fee might be involved:

Interestingly, as opposed to PSE or PF which consider "market value" in their terms of service to determine a cert fee, the APS requires no such adjustment. In fact, they state the reverse:

"Requests for the market or net value of an item will not be accepted."

No statement is found otherwise in their fee structure. They price strictly off Scott.

Why would any service offer an opinion on something they are not asked to? If someone pays for an opinion on a stamp then the opinion should be on the stamp.

If the stamp is used, then the cancel is part of the stamp. It cannot be ignored simply because the submitter wants to keep the costs down. Any opinion that does not involve the cancel would be inaccurate and therefore worthless. What would be the point of getting a cert on a badly off center 114 with a straight edge? The cancel is the only reason to bother and the only possible selling point on this stamp. Whether the cancel is genuine or not is the only possible reason to get a cert.

There is a difference between confirming a stamps identity and doing all of the identifying. If somebody submits a batch of stamps that are misidentified to begin with the expertizing organization is going to start imposing higher fees. Do not abuse the system and the system will not abuse you.

People submit misidentified stamps to them every day. Correctly identifying them is part of their function.

The PF or PSE will charge whatever they want, but as Waterbury cancels go a Pumpkin (Rohloff type G-2) is fairly common. There are at least 32 covers in existence. I do not think it will be a premium charge. but I am not The PF. Based on your scan it is a genuine cancellation.

Rev

I'm showing the Rholoff rarity as RR (no more than 15 known). Also of note is that this stamp is ex-Skinner and is listed in his and Eno's book. I just took it off of Mr. Fancy Cancel's hands on ebay not 10-minutes ago...