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Understanding Scott Listing Of Cancellation Colors And Collecting Them

 
 
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Pillar Of The Community

Germany
1326 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   06:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

in Scott specialized there is a list of additional values given for cancellations, especially cancel colors like red, blue, brown.

I am not sure about those listings and how to collect cancellation colors. Some stamps have a large list of colors, some not. For example the Pictorial issue and also the bank note issues.

Examples:
#114 has 11 cancellation colors
#120 has 2 cancellation colors

#147 has 8 cancellation colors
#152 has 3 cancellation colors

I understand that the number of colors has a relation to how scarce the stamp is - less stamps: less chances to find a color.

Only: some cancellation colors don't appear scarce at all, like the brown or magenta color at the bank notes. So they should exist quite often also on the scarce stamps. For example, magenta adds a premium of 0,50 USD to #147, brown has a premium of 1.50 USD. Both colors don't exist for #149 which is not a very rare stamp. This is not an exception but a rule for many stamps and cancellation colors.

So what can we learn from this concerning the value of cancellation colors for collecting them. If I want, for example, complete brown cancellation colors for all bank note stamps (National), is it possible at all?

And if a cancellation color is not listed at all, should I expect a high value if a dealer offers such a stamp e.g. for the missing colors of #149, similar to the orange cancellation of #147 or the brown and green colors of the Pictorial issues?

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1764 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   1:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One thing that can affect the distribution of cancel colors is if certain colors are used on a particular category of mail, for which a certain set of denominations are routinely used.

For example, the New York Foreign Mail cancels - higher denominations might be found more frequently with NYFMs (or possibly certain associated colors). They might be found very infrequently with domestic cancels in unusual colors.

I'm not a banknote expert, and I'm just making a general observation about stamp denominations and typical usages. As a result, some very low denomination stamps, that are otherwise common, might be hard to find with certain cancellations.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2079 Posts
Posted 10/15/2019   10:27 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
also some colors might have gotten more use during one time period than another time period
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1326 Posts
Posted 10/16/2019   1:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both, yes the example about NYFM is interesting and something to think about.

I was more thinking about common cancellations that only become interesting because of the color. As mentioned above, there is a relation between the number of colors and if the stamp is common or scarce. Also, some colors are more scarce, and in addition in some timeframes indeed.

But I just don't understand why some colors that are not the scarcest ones don't exist on stamps that are not the scarcest ones. Mainly in the bank note era. On the other hand I don't have to understand it :), if it is just a fact. But even about this I am not sure.

So I wondered about the reasons of the missing color listings for some stamps, and if other collectors (that wanted to collect all cancellation colors for some issues like the bank note or pictorial) have also seen this and perhaps had the experience in real life (out of the catalogue) that those colors actually exist. If yes, a value estimation for the not listed colors would be interesting.
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Pillar Of The Community
2285 Posts
Posted 10/16/2019   3:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
By the time of the banknote era, the USPOD required cancellation by BLACK ink (or if unavailable, then black pen strokes). Also the USPOD was increasingly better at broad issuance of standardized supplies to post offices of all sizes. Blue ink is encountered at some offices, with enough frequency to make little price premium. Red/magenta/purple can be found usually on registered mail. Other colors are indeed scarce and contrary to regulations.

The absence of a color listing in Scott is not proof of its non-existence.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1907 Posts
Posted 10/16/2019   4:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I assume the listing still exists, so what are we to make of the strangely specific listing for a Glen Allen star precancel under #206? That also comes in colors, so are we to add a premium for the color on top of that for the cancel?

You may want to keep this to the Banknotes, but the Washington-Franklins have cancels in colors, so why are there no cancel color listings for those? The Columbians and Trans-Mississippi list a few cancel types/usages (only) but certainly not all, and do not include colors, either.

I think it very possible that if no one has done a population study of cancel colors for the stamps mentioned and presented it to Scott, there is no basis/reason for including pricing for cancel colors and their listings in Scott.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1326 Posts
Posted 10/17/2019   02:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both.

When did this start with the regulations of cancel colors, also before the bank note era?
And what would be the colors "allowed" for a NYFM cancel?
And: are there other cancel type which can't exist in all colors, beside NYFM?

It now seems to me that not many collectors do collect cancel colors in terms of complete a certain cancel color of a certain issue. Probably because it's not possible. Of course the cancellation listings in Scott are not complete and not always logical, but they indeed give me a good hint about which cancel colors are scarce, for example those colors similar to the stamp color, and scarce colors on scarce stamps. So I actually like the idea of listing those in Scott. As Scott usually lists stamps that are known to them and/or sold at auction, I suppose they just don't know those cancellation color that is not listed and it's not been sold.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1907 Posts
Posted 10/17/2019   03:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I could understand collecting colored cancels on cover more than on stamps. There you would have some context of where the cancel was used and hopefully when. Then I think it is more important that (say) a red cancel was only used for a period of days from a specific post office, or was used all the time over a period of years, rather than looking at all red cancels from everywhere as a whole. Of course, loose stamps are just more plentiful.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1326 Posts
Posted 10/18/2019   04:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, of course the ideal collection would have the covers. But I myself also like the stamps themselves as little paper art that were used and travelled around many years ago and now they are still here. And as such, the cancel and its color is quite important. A said, I understood that not many collectors have collected it that way and that's why there is perhaps not enough information to know if the missing colors in Scott are all really scarce and how much one would have to pay if a dealer will offer it one day. Some colors on some stamps (like in the bank note era) seem very uncommon, but have less reputation that some fancy cancels (which I like too). It's just like that, but the good thing is that you can perhaps find such colors for cheap (not at real auctions, of course).

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