Australian KGV Stamps Explained.

Hope I have understood your question CollGStamps.

Watermarks are position in the middle of the stamp printing paper to stop forgery.

In the process of making the watermarks things can not, go to plan.

An example is I found a 1d red with absolutely no watermark to be seen. No matter how I looked at it. A $2,000 stamp.

But there was a watermark found by an expert. It was said to have shrunken and curled on itself to the degree that the watermark was like the size of a pin scratch. It was found to be the straight line watermark of the outer boarder that frames the watermarked area on the sheet of paper.

When blunt perforating pin are used it can stretch the shape of the watermarks as well.

Sometimes when the stamp printing paper has been made with the watermarks included, the paper changes the shape of the watermarks when it is in the drying process.

to KVG Collector
It looks you did miss the gist of the question. In my post (Posted 04/09/2014) in this thread showing you the back of the stamp, as you told me, I asked you if you know why the watermark on the stamps in question was so different from what I consider standard W5 accoding to SG. But I like reading all your stories anyway.]
Kind regards

SG = Stanley Gibbons, SC = Scott's
I think KGV uses the specialized Australian catalogue only, not either of the general ones mentioned. Can you describe the stamp in terms of what colour or perfs and watermark etc? instead of catalogue number please?

Thank you Puzzler. What you said is spot on.

Hi CollGStamps

I do think I have answered your question. Thank you for your kind words.

In the Australian 1913 to 1945 Map & Kangaroo issues they used 3 types of single watermarks called type 1 (fat boy), type 2( which is the only type for KGV printings) type 3 (skinny boy)

All three single watermarks are very different in appearance. I am not as experienced with other two types of single watermarks but I do know them your 2 watermark are type 2. One is stretched a bit but the design is that of a 2nd watermark.

The 2nd watermark is known by its pointed shoulders.

The others have rounded shoulders and have different body designs.

If I was to collect USA stamps I would probably by a Scott's cat.

If I was to collect UK stamps I would probably buy a Stanley Gibbons cat.

But as a specialist Australia 1914 to 1938 King George V collector I use an Australian cat " The Australian Commonwealth Specialist Catalogue"

All my fly speck books come from the UK and are all photocopy examples.

Thank you, KVG Collector, for your patient amswers, yet the question then comes: if the watermark (which you call type 2) is only shown in catalogues the way it is featured in my left picture ( my post 04/09/2014), how come it can look so broad and stumpy, as in the right of the same picture?

This below site linked to has a nice explanation and pictures of Kangaroo and KGV watermarks:
http://australianstamps.hsservices....ata2/node/33
Your picture:

First - Narrow Crown over A, . . . . Second - Tudor Crown over A.

If the 1st watermark was narrow crown it would have the spurs pointing upright in the middle of the body and the shoulders are to pointed to be a narrow crown.

What we are looking at is the natural differences that happen when the watermark type 2 is made. The body shape gives the answer. Not the size comparison.

Our watermarks.........

At times when I have had 1,000's of penny reds that have been poorly soaked and they have end up with more gum on them than the day they were printed. Also add 50 years of dust and paper decay. These stamps look very sad and they use to be cheap buys and still are at times.

So I am cleaning all these penny reds that need help badly. After the soak their colour comes out and different shades gleam under the bright light. No drying books for these beauties all the stamps are put face down on a towel and as they dry the watermarks stand out boldly as we are looking at the back of the stamp. The area I do my drying on takes about 400 stamps at a time.

I love watching the watermarks coming out and all the different positions the watermarks are in, with the odd inverted watermark and the single line that boarders the printing page. All the different shape type 2 watermarks........ That it! I am going to buy more large penny red lots. I do not care within reason how much. I want more penny reds to play with......

Thank you, Puzzler, for the link, but there is nothing new there. They comment on types of watermarks (no difference from SG or Sc), while I am trying to find out why the same watermark on the the same value can be so different.
Both stamps are GV 1 1/2p.

To KVG Collector
So, if I got you right, you mean that soaking can affect watermarks!?

The different size of watermark type 2 is when the printing paper is made.

All the watermarks are made when the printing paper is made.
Do you think there should be a subtype of WK2 (in your terms) taking into account the obvious difference shown? Look through your own vast trove, you'll find plenty to compare.
I've got lots of other questions to ask, if you do not mind, but I'd first like to clarify this issue.

The makers of watermark paper for stamp printing were not perfect when making the watermarks.

So all of type 2 watermark vary great in size and shape but they can be seen by the expert to be type 2.

All the other single watermarks are the same as for type 2 in having different sizes but can be identified per watermark type.

The single watermarks are fine named the way they are or we could have a situation where we would have watermark type 2 sub group 1 to 10,000.

There is a difference in small multiple watermark that could be called sub group 1 & 2 but I am not going there because the work load I have at present stops me!

But 1,000's of full on Australia KGV experts have made the way to understand the KGV printings and I am not going to challenge their experience!

Ask as you would like and hopefully I will have the answer. KGV