Question About Two Auction Firms

Has anyone used Weiss Auctions or Roumet? I am looking at items from both but I wasn't comfortable with Weiss's terms especially where ties go to the floor not the 1st bidder, and "no returns under any circumstances" With Roumet I wonder about paying cash to a French firm.

Any advice is appreciated.

Roumet have got through 500+ auctions, so I'm not sure where the risk would lie. Postage cost is likely to be horrible, though.

I have found Weiss to be first class in every respect. Bidding competition is very stiff however.

'
Weiss runs a good, clean show.

I can understand letting a tie go to the floor, as the floor bidder is more likely to have seen the lot; this would correlate well with a 'no returns' policy.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Huh? If I bid $1,000 before the auction starts and the auctioneer sells the item to the floor for a $1,000 in a tie bid I think the consignor is getting cheated out of an increment. What am I missing?

You know their house rules up front and can choose whether to participate or not.

Indeed - it doesn't make sense to be in the situation where there's a floor bid at a maximum price that the auctioneer already has in his pocket - surely he should be saying that he has $1,000 from the web, absentee bid etc, any more?

Something does not sound legal ,where a floorbidder only has to match a bidder who send in a bid in writing and placed it with the firm.

When the bidding has ended, and you have two equal bids, the bidder in front of you with check, cash, or credit card is a far more appealing choice, wouldn't you say? Ideally, as the bidding goes on, the bidder in front of you ought really to raise their bid over the bid sent in previously by at least one increment, and I'm not sure why the auctioneer wouldn't ask for that. But I don't think there's anything unethical in choosing the bidder sitting in front of you over the mail or online bidder if the bids are both identical. Why is that an ethical issue at all? The alternative would be to deny the item to the bidder who is present in the room and give it to the mail/online bidder instead -- but why would that be more fair?

Ken is correct. There is a book bid of $1000 and the lot opens at $100. The bidding goes back and forth between a floor bidder and the book bid until $1000 is reached and it becomes a tie. The right way for the floor bidder to win would be to bid another increment., lets say $1100. That is fair to the consignor. As far as floor bidders paying up on the spot that is in many cases not so. A lot of dealers that win lots walk out owing money. Lots of arrangements in the back room. I know of one dealer that will win and owe $500,000 and pay it in installments of $125,000.

First time I have seen an in house buyers premium of 15% and online buyers premium of 20%. Is that correct?

How can there be a tie?
One or the other, depending on the bids received, will reach $1,000 first,
then it is incumbent on the other by raising a bid, or retiring.

My thinking: the book bid has never never made a bid of $1,000, he/she has merely increased the increment, and is willing to pay a max of $1,000
If floor bidder gets there first. It's his/hers.

The auctioneer must increase the book bid by the correct increment, until the book limit is reached, if the floor bidder reached the $1,000 first, then it is knocked down to him / her.

..or have I missed something?

When an auction on a lot is begun, what is proper? take the book bid first? or the floor bid?

Stamp Auction Network general advice........in part

As a general rule, auction houses give the first bid received at a certain increment precedence over later bids at the same level. Thus, a floor bidder who ties with the high mail bidder will usually be asked to "break the tie" by going up one more increment or the lot is considered sold to the mail bidder. This situation is evident only when the bidding progresses in such a manner that the last bid from the book happens to be one increment below the top book bid, leaving the floor bidder with an identical bid which was received prior to the sale. Thus, such tie-breaking requests are merely an extension of the "earliest bid received wins" rule.

Weiss can set their own terms of course but I am used to floor bidders having to "clear the book" in order to be successful.

I've reread the explanation of bidding several times and it is difficult to understand. I think they probably do things like other auction houses but use a Third Party bidding service called "Proxibid" and they are having a difficult time explaining it. Using this service also may explain the 5% surcharge on Internet Bids.

As John Becker said I know their terms and I've made my decision. I'm taking the $5000 I was going to bid on their item and going to Kelleher auction with more money in my pocket. Some auction firms are just not Internet friendly yet and I have lots of options.

Ken - better still, just send me the $5000 and I'll stock up on some of my missing classics at Roumet.