Rebacked And Reperfed #31

I'm relatively new to this forum, and if I get responses showing that most members are tired of seeing posts about misrepresented stamps, I'll rethink my participation. It is just so discouraging to me to see how often I discover it; I don't know what to call it other than dishonesty, and I'm going to expose it as often as I see it.

Several months ago, I gave the dealer with the listing below the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know about a more recent certificate on the stamp he was selling. The certificate he was imaging had been removed by the PF, and it was linked to the updated certificate opining serious alteration of the stamp. The seller choose to ignore it.

Can someone tell me - Why do dealers do this? Everyone knows when they are buying an ungraded stamp for $20, when it is catalogued at $150, that it may have some problems. But this is a $3600 stamp! Why don't more collectors and dealers with high integrity express outrage?

*****Can someone tell me - Why do dealers do this?*****

Greed

Peter

$$$$ is why. And not wanting to step on toes within a small community.

I have drastically scaled back my auction purchases (SAN) because of negative experiences that were taking their toll on my collecting mental health. Schuyler Rumsey sold me a 276 that was reperfed and repaired. Returned and refunded but what a pain. I am keeping an eye out for it to surface again. Kelleher sold me a two cert 313 that was regummed and had perf issues. Returned and refunded but another pain. Spink sold me a 460 that was actually a 478. I ended up keeping it. These happened within a month more or less. The upshot is that a serious buyer is scaling back and since you are never alone in your behavior there is revenue leaving the market.

It is all BS and very much hurts the hobby. Yes, buyer expertise and education is extremely important but certs should be pretty rock solid. It should not be this hard to hide information about negative opinions given the technology/connectivity we are blessed with. And auction houses and dealers that merely pass through material are shooting themselves in the foot. Given that a house is getting 40% of a sale between the buyers and sellers commission they could do more than scan and list, at least for items that cost many hundreds and many thousands of dollars.

In my mind there used to be a chasm between ebay dealers and the more "mainstream" stamp outlets. Not so certain anymore.

PS: I had contacted Posner regarding the reperfed 27 from the thread below. No reply and the stamp is still listed for sale for $4600.

https://goscf.com/t/71186

I have not been a buyer of expensive stamps but am on the cusp of becoming one. I am questioning if that is a path I want to take. BTW, I am very much in favor of threads like this.

Many times they know full well about updated certs. Many of the stamps sold by Siegel in their "extension lots" end up on ebay without the negative certs.

I had contacted PSE regarding the reperfed 27 mentioned above. They never responded either.

This lack of responsiveness is troubling. We might see this blow up like sports-card grading has.

The dealers in question have long histories of similar events.

Rogdcam - $$$$ is why. And not wanting to step on toes within a small community.

I agree fully, and what you say about not wanting to step on toes in a small community is perhaps the most important element. I don't know any way to stop these practices except by exposing the bad actors on forums like this. None of us want to destroy relationships we have with dealers, but if I tell a dealer that he is advertising an altered stamp and they choose to ignore me, I'm not going to just keep quiet anymore.

As a moderator, it is my desire to help all hobbyists make better informed buying decisions and do whatever I can to help our hobby grow. But I am also aware that social media venues can have a significant downside and can easily be abused by those with axes to grind and can post opinions as facts. Additionally, everyone makes mistakes and social media can quickly and unfairly trash a person's reputation

But so far, I have judged these recent threads to be fairly presented with no hidden agendas. I do wish that the dealers, auction houses and certification organizations would participate and present their perspectives. (Supporting this community for a few bucks per month would also be nice.) And I most certainly wish our hobby had less of the elitist 'good ol boy' circles which sometimes use questionable influence to get catalog publishers to list stamps, manipulate the certification process, and deceive hobbyists when stamps are sold.

There are good dealers, good auction firms, and decent certification organizations but increased transparency should always be an objective for them. In this post-internet age information is much easier to share and this should be used to philately's advantage. As a hobby, we should shed the old legacy 'limit access to information' and rather empower hobbyists and develop deeper trust relationships. this applies to both dealers and hobbyists. While we may enjoy hoarding stamps, we should not horde knowledge. Collaborative efforts and sharing knowledge is a great way to step up the battle against fraud and deception at every level. Dealers, auction firms, certification organizations, and hobbyists should all proactively be participating in this objective since it helps our hobby across the board.

Since the advent of the internet, the business relationship paradigm has drastically changed; the new approach relies on collaboration and not on competition. Our hobby has been slow to adapt and some still think that this is nuts, but the new paradigm is to share information with the hobby including your competitors.
Don

Did the older certs tend to NOT delineate faults/alterations and just pass judgment on whether or not the stamp was the correct Scott No.?

widglo - you have a good eye for detecting these.

There have been prior efforts - more focused on sellers than certificates.

For example SCADS - http://www.scads.org/

Last updated: November 2012 (and actually most of the info is from the 2005 thru 2007 era).

A database with over 2000 ebay listing reviews that is fully searchable, filterable, and sortable is here
http://stampsmarter.com/BuyingOnlin...Reviews.html
http://stampsmarter.com/BuyingOnlin..._ViewDB.html
Don

Another example of the well balanced, fair, and transparent explanations from our moderator, Don.
One of the best, if not THE best moderators of a philatelic forum, on the internet.
I for one, appreciate his sage advice, and counsel.
We are all, fortunate to have him.

Some dealers have the business model of: buy the item from an estate, dealer, auction house or collector; list the item as received, including whatever cert came with it, picking the price based on that; sell the item. Why incur the cost of researching later certs if you can find a buyer without doing that work? Just list it as received, sell and move on.

The collector's only defense is to understand the seller's protocol and buy only from sellers who act as desired. I've never bought from Momen. Never will. Thanks to this forum.