Rebacked And Reperfed #31

It is not quite that simple. Time is the most precious resource for a stamp dealer. In addition to buying collections, dealers often buy and sell to other dealers at shows. Some of this activity is facilitated by individuals walking around shows to buy and sell. While this activity may be helpful, some individuals may be untrustworthy. dealers at auctions are often under extreme time pressure evaluating lots.

Conscientious dealers may send stamps with older certificates in for a new cert, but it sometimes doesn't end well. Unless the stamp w was purchased on extension, the owner has little recourse. A dealer at a show showed me a 2¢ perf 12 coil center line pair with on older good PF cert and a new PSE cert with a negative opinion. I know that he was hoping that the PSE opinion was wrong, but I could see that the perforations were obviously faked, a total loss for the dealer. Another well-respected dealer recently told me of a similar experience, another total loss. Because on-line certificate databases are relatively recent, stamps with older certs languishing in inventory may not have been checked.

The best dealers will stand behind what they sell and will make good on their mistakes. Many dealers place a time limit on returns, but some do not, but no one is here forever. Dealers who won't stand behind their merchandise or who willfully offer stamps known to have problems should be shunned.

So in other words, the "dealer" is not actually really a stamp dealer at all, they might as well be selling pigs feet, wheat, or steel. No knowledge needed, just a MBA degree from some university.

Funny, it seems lots of these folks know exactly what they are doing when they go to buy your stamps, spying every fault, reperf, and repair. But I agree that some people just peddle stamps. I consider a real stamp dealer as a person who truly knows the material and stands behind what they sell.

I think the issue here is that, especially with online transactions, we (hobbyists) support 'the best buy' we can find instead of supporting 'the best dealer' we can find. I also think that a significant number of collectors get frustrated after finding out that they have gotten what they have paid for, altered crap.

The corrective action? Knowledge. But not simply knowledge of the material you buy but perhaps more importantly knowledge of who you are buying from.
Don

Hi, this all makes sense regarding dealers, knowledge of the dealer vs. online - yes, we need to educate ourselves etc -but wow, this is very discouraging to see.

For those new stamp collectors - especially younger ones, gen Xers (me) and Millennials ...Our world is online, immediate gratification, and post mid 70s stamp collecting was definitely on the decline (so the culture was not prevalent - specifically in the US) most of us growing up in the 80s and early 90s... we didn't even know stamp dealers existed.

How do we build a strong relationship with a dealer? I hear join a club - but what if we cannot join the club?/ for me I live in Houston Texas -4th largest city in the US-and huge geographically... the stamp club is in the heart of the city in a VERY expensive/elite community -hmmmm. Also, I unfortunately work and have children, so I cannot make the monthly meetings....no club in the suburb I live in. That is why I post so much and read so much on this community. You guys are the experts for me...I appreciate the OPs post and hope that all are ok with newbies like us asking newbie questions (even when I know you guys want to roll your eyes). You guys are the trusted ethical "dealers." unfortunately, many times we learn from our mistakes after we post a stupid buy in the community ha! anyhow - I am just adding a different and novice perspective as Philately evolves in this modern world.

I appreciate the SCF crew. Nora.

Knowledge is the only weapon in the war against deceptive selling.
(In my opinion.)
Don

Yes, you are correct - and probably patience on my part. Rome wasn't built in a day. onward and upward :).

In my case when I decided to put some serious financial resources into my collection I reached out to a couple of extremely well respected "real" dealers that I would use for pricier items. It helped that they were in my region somewhat, not local, but within hours. The telephone works well too though. I got to know them and they got to know me. I researched them in depth prior to starting a relationship. They answered all questions and gave me solid advice as well as educated me on philatelic topics that I asked about. We have become friends, meet up when we can and the couple of issues that we had were quickly worked out. It also gives me a fast outlet for items that I want to part with at a real price. There are no games played. As Don and others repeatedly say, you need to build a relationship, one that is not lopsided and mostly consists of you parting with cash and little else. I might give Home Depot $2000 online for a generator or refrigerator because I know who they are, what they are about and that I have recourse if things go awry. I will not give that kind of money, or much less to be honest, to a seller that I really do not know and that I cannot call when I wish and get real answers. Especially if that seller is strictly an online presence and essentially hides behind the internet.

I will buy small items online from venues such as Hipstamp but my risk is limited by the size of the purchase.

The bottom line is do your homework, deal with reputable people that are accessible and cultivate relationships.

Finally, I learned early on that there are no bargains. You can find things that people do not know that they have but that is a different topic. You need to pay for good material and good material will also pay you back when the time comes.

good feedback Rogdcam. Looks like I need to do a little research...Texas is a HUGE state (country like lol) - I am sure I can find that person/dealer for me when I am ready to take the next step. ;)

This may help, if you can find the time....

https://www.tsdastamps.com/stamp-show-schedule/

revcollector! thank you - I obviously was being too myopic and only looking at Houston Stamp shows -which I thought only occurred once a year in September (I started collecting after Thanksgiving 2019:). Thank you for sharing - Katy is only about 40 mins to an hour from my part of the city, those March dates definitely look promising. Exciting!

This theme seems to be all too prevalent in this "room" though; and while I freely admit I view philately through the prism of a collector, I find it troublesome that money really ends up owning the issue at the proverbial "end of the day" in most of these threads. No issue with dealers making a profit on stamps; I certainly don't expect to lose money on land I develop, nor do I expect any other business to operate as a charity just to be clear.

That said, I do find that "volume over quality" seems to be more of the norm rather than the exception these days. Just speaking from personal experience after pursuing Ecuador like a rabid dog for the past 7 months, I can't even count how many times I've had to correct a seller with just basic info that had they could have found in the Scott catalog. The fact is that many sellers really just don't care to take the time to really find out what they are selling. This is frankly depressing; again speaking from the standpoint of a collector who just wants to admire and complete or add to his/her his collection. If I am "good" (I use that term loosely, but as someone who studies what they are buying) enough to pick out blatant errors; why should I trust you as a dealer? Sure most of the folks reading this can relate by just looking through a lot of the W/F issues on ebay; you can just eyeball a lot of stuff and tell it is not a perf 12 when it is a 10; just as an example.

Have commented on other posts with the same general response; but I don't really feel like trying to fill the "hole" in my US album any more with an unused US 2 and 8 any more (something I can afford, and used to dearly covet.) I get more joy out of hunting down Ecuador, French West Africa/Guinea, Belgian Congo and Israel and so on rather than playing the cert game.

Not to mention that I'm waiting on a cert on a 120 from the APS that I'm now at 3 months and 29 days on with no opinion on. Not playing the game any more when a hobby/passion becomes a second job.

So in our perfect world:

Dealers would only buy higher valued material from collectors who have current certificates.

Therefore it is our responsibility as collectors to only sell recently certified material.

Also we collectors will only buy recently certified items from dealers or other collectors.

If an item is not recently certified, we will assume that the item is the least valuable possibility, less a discount for damage, reperfing, etc...

Come to think of it, this is how buy material.
I have not sold anything yet, so I will have to list everything that should be certified before I sell.

If you are serious you must have a fine fleece, I mean collection.

Sinclair,

No fleece, beer budget/beer taste.
Anything I have that should be certified is in poor condition and purchased at minimal cost.

However, the problem being discussed is how do we get dealers to ensure that expensive items are properly certified.

The simple answer: We do not buy items that lack current certificates.

Why should dealers pre-certify our purchases?

When we sell our collections through dealers, should we expect top dollar for noncertified items?

Certification costs time and money. If we spend the money, we can expect higher offer. If the dealer spends the money, they have earned a higher profit.

Without certificates, dealers can most efficiently sell our uncertified treasures as uncertified treasures.

When we provide current certificates to the dealer, the dealer can efficiently sell our treasures as treasures.

The difference is that our profit should be higher when we sell certified treasure.

The problem being discussed is certificates that are unfavorable "disappearing".

I agree rogdcam. The thread was started with an example of a dealer listing. While I am leery of assuming another person's intentions, only one of two things originally happened; either the seller was ignorant of the newer cert or the seller chose to ignore it. But once the original poster notified the seller of the revised certification, ignorance was no longer in play.

This is not a case where anyone expects a dealer to 'properly certify' the material they are selling. This is a case where one cert is being used to sell the stamp and the other cert is being ignored. The possible motivation is obvious, selling a $3500+ stamp is unlikely when the current cert drives the value of the stamp down to a fraction of the current listing price.
Don

Edit: An analogy... a retail store cashier does not do their job and check for a counterfeit when they are handed a $100 bill but the counterfeit is caught at the end of the day when the cash drawer is closed. Does the store eat the $100 loss or does it simply put the bogus bill back in the drawer and the next day pass it off on one of their other customers?