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Some Help, Please, With The Former Yugoslavia

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   1:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add EdziuMM to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Can anyone help me figure out where this early issue of the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (later renamed Yugoslavia) was postmarked? Both the Cyrillic-alphabet and Roman-alphabet names are incompletley visible and faint.
The top Cyrillic looks to me like "…#1045;#1043;#1045;#1053;#1057;#1044;#1054;#1056;#1060;" and the bottom Roman looks to me like "RE...DORF." Which leads me to guess that it was REGENSDORF.
But the only Regensdorf I've been able to Google is in Switzerland.
It might have been a place that was once named Regensdorf in Austria-Hungary. The fact that the name is rendered in Cyrillic atop the postmark leads me to believe it was a place that is now in Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Kosovo or North Macedonia. Seems to me that if it was in what is now Slovenia or Croatia the Roman alphabet version would have been atop the postmark.
So, can anyone venture a guess as to what this place is named now and in which country it's in? My thanks in advance for any help.


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   1:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EdziuMM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmmmm?
So how can we type Cyrillic letters in this forum?
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United States
12330 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   1:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, it is not supported. Work-around - make an image of the characters and then post the image.
Don
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   1:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EdziuMM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Don.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EdziuMM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK! Here (I hope!) is a scan of what I believe I see atop this postmark.

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   2:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with your conclusions. The Roman letters could start with a B, but that stretches it. Also, it seems there is no Begensdorf.

Entering Regensdorf, Begensdorf, or egensdorf on google.rs in either Cyrillics or Roman letters only returns Regensdorf near Zuerich, Switzerland.

Hint: use google translate to transfer REGENSDORF into cyrillics by translating it from English to Serb.
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Edited by NSK - 12/17/2020 2:18 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   4:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EdziuMM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, NSK!
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   5:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In German regens=rainy, dorf=village So one has to look for a rainy village!There are tons of them...
At one point I thought it could of been from the consulate in Zurich; but Regensdorf;even though close to Zurich was just a tiny village in 1921.So that did not add up....
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   6:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EdziuMM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've tried Wikipedia's lists of German-language exonyms but didn't find this Regensdorf there.
Is there some source like a gazetteer of the Austria-Hungary empire that can be found on the internet?
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3211 Posts
Posted 12/17/2020   7:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The closest I've found so far is Rogensdorf, a former German language name for the village of Banatski Dvor in Serbia:

From German Wikipedia:

"Banatski Dvor (serbisch-kyrillisch); ungarisch: seit 1867 Szölösudvarnok vorher Törzsudvarnok; deutsch: Rogensdorf, Rogendorf oder Roggendorf) ist ein Dorf in der Opština Žitište in der Vojvodina (Serbien)."

i.e. "Banatski Dvor (Serbian; Hungarian: since 1867 Szölösudvarnok previously Törzsudvarnok; German: Rogensdorf, Rogendorf or Roggendorf) is a village in the Žitište municipality in Vojvodina (Serbia)."

I've edited the Hungarian version to replace the letter "o" with two acute accents with "ö".

The German name seems a reasonable candidate to me as the village is in the Banat region where historically there were many German communities.

The current name was introduced in 1921.
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Nigel
Edited by nigelc - 12/17/2020 8:37 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 12/18/2020   02:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like Nigelc's find. I would say the second letter in Cyrillics and Roman script is an E and not an O, but I could see how someone could have mistaken ROGENSDORF for REGENSDORF when making the canceller.

@Perf12

I doubt "Regens" in a German town name has anything to do with the German word for rain. The town of Regensburg is not a Castle in the Rain. Its name derives from Castra Regina.
The name Regens… most times has the meaning of belonging to or being the seat of a regent or council, as in the Regenz of Basle University.

In the case of Regensdorf near Zuerich, the name derives from a man called Regin. The mediaeval name Reganesdorf comes from the genitive Regines of Regin.
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Valued Member
United States
27 Posts
Posted 12/18/2020   03:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Carl20 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Typing letters in Russian online keyboard then copy and paste: #1103;#1096;#1077;#1088;#1090;#1072;#1089;#1076;#1092;#1075;#1079;#1093;#1094;#1074;#1073;#1085;#1084;#1082;#1083;#1100;
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Valued Member
United States
27 Posts
Posted 12/18/2020   03:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Carl20 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Cyrillic letters show up on preview reply but not after submit reply.
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United States
12330 Posts
Posted 12/18/2020   03:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The forum does not support these characters. Please note that it has nothing to do with the keyboard mapping and/or getting the right characters in the webpage form.

In a SQL database, you have to designate a field to use a specific data type to be able to store different (non-English) character types. I assume years ago when the forum SQL database was first setup, the decision was made to not use these specific data types. (It would have taken more DB space and been slower.)

Now that there is over a decade of data in the database, trying to change the data type for the fields is not feasible. This is why I posted this...

Quote:
Sorry, it is not supported. Work-around - make an image of the characters and then post the image.

Don
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
875 Posts
Posted 12/18/2020   07:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EdziuMM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your efforts. It's certainly a mystery.
Still would like to find a gazetteer of Austria-Hungary, if such ever existed.
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Valued Member
United States
46 Posts
Posted 12/18/2020   10:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add boydxbiggs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I spent some time investigating this yesterday. The sleuthing was fun, as I collect postmarks from the Austrian Empire, but I couldn't find an answer. There are websites with lists of places in Croatia and Slovenia with German eponyms like this one, but I turned up nothing there. So I looked at place names in Montenegro, Bosnia and even Serbia but came up empty there, too.

The Rogensdorf suggestion makes a lot of sense, given its location. Still, in both the German and Cyrillic it is clearly an "e" and not an "o" on the cancel. I think it's possible that it was such a small village (dorf, after all, means village in German) that it just doesn't show up on lists of place names. I have run across some Austrian Empire cancels that turns out to be from places with only a couple hundred inhabitants.

One suggestion might be to contact the Austria Philatelic Society (US). I have emailed RSchneider before with questions, and he has been very helpful. Here is his dealer website: https://rschneiderstamps.com.
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