Unitrade Canada 2021 And Postal Stationery

I recently upgraded to the new Unitrade 2021 Canada catalogue and find a note that the postal stationery items and Unitrade numbering have been removed. Reference is made to the 8th Edition of the Webb's Postal Stationery catalogue instead.

Perhaps I am late to the game and this was possibly already done in the 2020 edition.

However, I must disagree with the reasons given because of the following:

- There was an 18 year period between the Webb #7 and Webb #8 editions. What was a collector supposed to use in those 18 years other than the Unitrade numbering which has now been made obsolete?

- What will happen to Canadian postal stationery numbering if Webb doesn't update for another 10-18 years or ever?

- Webb in the 8th edition did a major renumbering. So now when you look for Canadian postal stationery items on Hipstamps, ebay, Delcampe, etc. the listings are generally the now defunct Unitrade numbers. So the reason given for the removal that most collectors/dealers use the Webb numbering is certainly not what I have found. Right now to list an item for sale I need to include the Unitrade number, the old Webb number and the new Webb number. What do we use for anything after June 2019 which is where Webb 8th edition ends?

In my opinion this has been a step backwards for Canadian Postal Stationery collectors and dealers.

I think the Unitrade catalogue is at capacity as far as how many pages its binding can physically hold. I had heard that one of the temporary remedies proposed was to rotate sections in and out for a few years. The Editor may be able to better speak on the challenges going forward.

Digital publishing has no reliance or costs related to binding or paper. It is almost 2021.
Don

I can understand that the Unitrade catalogue is getting very thick for one volume. However, removing an entire section and referring to another catalogue which is indeed great, but has a spotty record for releasing new editions, can leave collectors in limbo for a decade or more.

I have just looked at my postal stationery collection and realized the impact. I have 11 x 2" binders full of computer generated pages with both Unitrade and Webb 7th numbering up to 2000/01. From 2001 to 2018 the pages are set up with the only available Unitrade numbers during this period. With the Webb 8th edition total renumbering and now the elimination of the Unitrade numbering, all of these pages are essentially obsolete. This is a time consuming and expensive effort to redo. I can't possibly be the only person in this position, especially dealers who have their items catalogued one way or the other.

PM, it would do a lot better if you'd contact the editor directly?

Peter

What good is contacting the editor?

The catalogue is issued and his reasons are given in the catalogue. I happen to disagree with his reasons and am using this forum to see if others have the same problem or not. I also know from other threads that the editor is a member of this forum and if he wants to weigh in, great.

I just find it very frustrating that in a matter of 12 months the Webb numbering has been totally redone and now the Unitrade numbering that has remained as a constant reference over the years has been eliminated.

If no one else has a problem with what has transpired, then fine it is my problem and I will have to decide what to do with my collection.

Sounds to me like you have a valid reason for frustration,
Them be the way it is, and you have to find a way forward, to deal with it.

5 years ago, I decided Gibbons was not up to the way I wanted to collect, and changed to Scott, I am still altering catalogue numbers
5 years later.

I'd suggest, you have a preamble in the front of your Albums, explaining the transformation of Identification numbers, and add a Webb / Unitrade Number transposing chart. I see no reason to alter any of your hard earned work.

I feel your pain, PM. Like most stationery collectors, I was so thankful to get the long-awaited Webb's update.
Lots of new stuff was included - like Santa's letters, which I love.
The renumbering was particularly devastating, due largely to the decision that #8 and #10 envelopes would be given different numbers.
Not what I would have advocated, but... it is what it is.
That is to say that - if anyone is going to adapt, it'll have to be me, not Webb's.
Great care now must be taken to assure that the item at issue is the one you think it is, having three different references.
(Particularly difficult for ebay listers.)

Hi All. I just bought my 2021 Unitrade Catalogue less than 2 weeks ago. I was looking at page 697 of this edition and tend do disagree with the explanations as well. However, whenever I was going through my postal stationery collection I always referred to my Webb catalogue anyway because I thought the Unitrade Catalogue was lacking in this area. It is still unfortunate that the editors decided to drop this topic altogether. It would seem that a lot of catalogue editors are changing their policies (?)

I have to get caught up with my Webb, Precancel and Revenue catalogues anyway. I heard that the last 2 I mentioned have new editions out but not sure about the Webb's Catalogue yet.

Cheers

Chimo Bujutsu

I totally agree that the Webb catalogue has more details than Unitrade had. However, with an 18 year span between Edition 7 and the new Edition 8 of Webb, Unitrade was the only source for catalogue number identification.

Webb Edition 8 has quite a bit of Errata, and as previously mentioned by me and others, a total renumbering in my estimation of approximately 90%. That makes purchasing and selling a challenge since you now really need to identify an item with 3 numbers to take into account that not everyone, like Chimo, has updated to the latest version. So taking a random sample number of Webb Edition 7 #P119 you are dealing with a 1982-85 postal card. Unitrade had a similar number as UX119 for this issue. However, a Webb 8th edition P119 now refers to a 1930-33 issue, an almost 50 year difference as to what is meant by P119, and the same old P119 now has a new number P294. Confusing? Certainly.

Perhaps considering the Webb edition 8 Errata and Unitrade's decision to stop their listing and numbering, Webb will be pressured into issuing more timely updates. Otherwise we will have to develop our own numbering for anything after June 2019! Perhaps some frustrated person will take this away, prepare a "Rosetta Stone" cross reference table for the 3 available catalogue numbers and issue an annual catalogue with yet another numbering system.

There is a cross-reference guide at the back, of course - which actually made me dismay at the incredible number of number changes there were.
There will be confusion for many years to come.

I just discovered that on page 169A of Webb 8th there is a duplicate number which then makes all the subsequent numbers off by one. So with Unitrade's decision, Canadian postal stationery collectors now have no valid numbers from August 2018 onwards.

When I took over as editor of the Unitrade catalogue back in November 2004 I had high hopes for what the catalogue could become ... most of those original goals have been accomplished.

I was also a bit naive at the time on the wide range affect the catalogue has on collectors. That is, I didn't realize just how passionate collectors are with the catalogue listings.

When the 2020 Unitrade catalogue was being prepared (spring of 2019), a new Webb's catalogue (8th edition) was also about to be published. This was an opportunity, after years of discussion, to remove the stationery section from the Unitrade catalogue. Why?

• the Unitrade catalogue stationery listings are quite limited


• the hobby should not have two different numbering schemes for the same items


• the Webb's catalogue is, by far, the specialized listing of Canadian stationery

Yes, it was a hard decision to remove the stationery section from the Unitrade catalogue a year-and-a-half ago. But, in some respects, it was also an easy decision.

To be completely transparent, I have received a total of one e-mail (this past February) from a collector who was also not happy with the removal of the stationery section. This thread on the SCF is the second set of comments received on the subject.

What about number changes?

This has gone on in the field of stamp collecting since the very first catalogue was produced, and I suspect it will continue forever. Whether the Unitrade catalogue continued to keep the stationery listings or not, specialist collectors would have still needed to change their albums due to the extensive new numbering changes made in the 8th edition of the Webb's catalogue.

Yes, I purposely used the word "specialist" in that last sentence. As noted previously, the stationery listings in the Unitrade catalogue were quite limited. Any specialist collector of stationery should have been using the Webb's catalogue. Just like a specialist "Admiral" collector should be using Marler's book and a revenue collector should be using van Dam's revenue book and a precancel collector should be using the new 8th edition of The Standard Canada Precancel Catalogue (just published) ... and the list of other specialized books goes on and on (the Unitrade catalogue has included examples of some of these books throughout the listings).

[I am a firm believer of having a strong and extensive philatelic library in one's collecting interests.]

I spoke yesterday and this morning with Earle Covert, one of the editors of the Webb's catalogue. He noted that he, and dealers, still come across stationery collections where the albums show the Holmes' stationery numbers - that catalogue hasn't been around since the early 1960s!

The primary reason for my calls with Earle were to highlight the need to have new stationery listings (i.e. Webb's catalogue numbers) be made available to collectors in a timely manner, whether this be a summarized listing in the Unitrade catalogue each year or via the BNAPS website. The result of those calls is the following:

• an errata for the Webb's catalogue will be posted on the BNAPS website most likely by the end of January 2021


• the intent is to publish a new Webb's catalogue every four years


• each new edition of the Unitrade catalogue will provide a listing of new stationery issued since the last catalogue. This will give collectors the new Webb's numbers once a year (similar to how most collectors get their Scott numbers)


• when Unitrade is published with the updated list of numbers, WEBB will also provide the same listing to BNAPS to put up on their website

The bottom line is that for the betterment of Canadian philately in the long term, it was best to remove the stationery listings from the Unitrade catalogue last year when the new Webb's catalogue was published.

It is great to hear such passionate comments from collectors, both positive and negative.

Robin Harris, editor Unitrade Specialized Catalogue of Canadian Stamps
with input from Earle Covert, co-editor Webb's Postal Stationery Catalogue of Canada and Newfoundland

First of all, Happy New Year to all.

Robin, what you have written and the plan forward that you suggest along the lines of the discussions with Earle, seems to be a workable solution. I look forward to all of the points listed being implemented.

A further comment on Robin Harris' reply on December 31, 2020. For those who purchased the new 8th Edition of Webb's Postal Stationery Catalogue of Canada & Newfoundland (like myself), you may have noticed that there are some items MISSING from the new edition that were included in the previous one.

Specifically, this is a listing of prepaid envelopes and labels issued by Canada Post. As explained to me, the catalogue would have been too large to publish with all of of this material also included (another 150+ pages), so this section was set aside as a separate Addendum. This is available as a free download from the BNAPS website (bnaps.org) in several files, and specifically at this link: https://bnaps.org/ore/WaltonCovert-...C_Index.htm. Access is open for this set of files.

It also has a cross-reference section at the back for the old and new catalogue numbers for these items.

M. Zatka

https://bnaps.org/ore/WaltonCovert-...C_Index.htm.

This is what I get..Unless it is my computer.



Robert