How Many Expertizing Certificates Do You Have?

Since the topic of certification seems to always generate a lively discussion, I was curious as to how prevalent obtaining certificates are among the forum members. For example, I have communicated with members who have collected for more than 60 years and yet may have only one or maybe no certified stamps in their collection. There can be many reasons for this including perceived value of the collection, costs etc. but I suspect these are not the only reasons.

Since I am asking the question I will state that I have about 250 certs. The majority are PF, a large minority are PSE, about 10 APEX, no PSAG and about 30 Weiss. My usage of certs is pretty simple. My collection started as a classic US collection and expanded to WW. When buying classics I always sought unused if affordable. This immediately led me to a category where I was dropping more than a few pennies on an individual item. This led me for the most part to consider only stamps that had already been certified. We are talking about unused Scott # 1-313. For those items I could not afford unused such as # 13,16, 31, 34, 27– I would still be buying at a level of quality where a cert would have not been unusual or for to my point be expected. In fact, I would shy away from dealers that offered such stamps which were not previously certified.

I also realized that I wasn't as good expertizing stamps as the experts. Stamps that I might have purchased as a selection uncertified would then be sent for certification and would most often have some fault or other mentioned on the cert. I specifically remember an unused #17 and #38 with issues that I still don't see to this day and a 116 bought through a Weiss auction that looked beautiful then as it does today but for which the PF noted a tiny sealed internal tear. I decided that I didn't want to deal with any of that so stopped buying uncertified US stamps. However, I did buy a lot of foreign stamps later on including some higher priced ones including for example unused double heads and admirals from Rhodesia, Scott 125 from NZ, Austria such as 127 and 144 and 1874 Spain higher values. These all ultimately got certified by Weiss. At the time I also had some classic US, unused, attractive but uncertified, that I had obtained earlier in my collecting career that I was curious about. These I would not have sent to the PF and PSE due to cost and the fact that these were duplicates so I really didn't care as much as I already had a certified copy. Examples of these would be Scott 33,77 and 98 for US and they would usually come back from Weiss (chosen for reasonableness of pricing and quick turn around time) with some small fault or another.

As I write this I have only two foreign certs from other than Weiss—both from the PF—one for Scott 117 Rhodesia and the other for Canada #2 purchased a long time ago from Rupp—no surprise that coming from him, it had previously been certified and in fact explains why so many of my purchases of classic US came from Rupp Bothers. I had, and have had, absolutely no hesitancy nor regrets in my dealings with Chris Rupp.

I have one graded cert, probably also obtained from Rupp, which is the unused Scott 78b graded 90 as listed on the PSE population report. That cert came with the stamp; I would not have sent it in to get graded and would not plan to send stamps in to get graded other than prior to auction for those stamps felt to be candidates for 90 or greater. But just holding them as a collector not trying to sell, I do not have either enough confidence in the uniformity of the grading game nor the curiosity to spend my money in this way.

I think I have gone on long enough for now if I haven't bored most of you 6 paragraphs ago. What I would really like to hear is other forum members stories.

I only have one, it's for my an error - Scott #1895h - Flag over Supreme Court with a black field of stars. Issued by APS.

Interesting idea as expressed in your post. I have gotten to the point where I cert all coils, and anything that can be questioned. I also cert any hip or bay purchase that might cause me concern. Sometimes value/ price would indicate certification, if doubt removed equals greater value to me. I probably have 60 cents or so.
Cheers Mr. Fun city
By the way I love your handle. Story?

I had about 400 certs before I disposed of my classic US collection through Christopher. I too purchased the bulk of my best material from Rupp along with Ed from Century and a few select auction firms. I cannot think of one stamp that Christopher offers that does not have a cert. They were all PF and PSE certs.

For my WW stamps I have a large variety of certs from Hovest and Greene and so on. I look for certs from expertizing specialists in particular areas. You will find a lot of Hovest certs for Russian material and of course Greene goes with Canada as ice cream goes with a waffle cone.

I see some folks turn their noses up at the need for certs ("you need to be better educated" and "some people collect certs" they say) but the reality is that if you ever intend to sell you WILL end up with a cert if you want to realize the most return on better material so why not get it over with.

I would note that in the last year of forming my classic US collection I had five auction purchases that had certs and I put those on extension and they came back noting everything from a misidentified Wash-Frank from Spink to reperfed and repaired. Always get a fresh certificate.

Interesting Rodgcam
A couple of years back I purchased a Scott 16 with a PF from 1960.
I never bothered re cert cause it not only looked genuine, but I figured how much could you bring to bear that didn't exist then. In which case is the question should one recert whenever a new expertise says that new technology reveals new dimensions of these old issues.
Same with a 388 I purchased a year or two ago. It had a PF from 1989 I did not Recert, that one I probably should have. Having said that I spent an hour looking it over couple of weeks back and it still looks good, although I am no expert. I am not as interested in value as much as I want to be sure of authenticity.
Cheers

GMC—I'm glad you brought this up as I was going to respond to rodg regarding his last sentence. As I stated, if selling the collection by auction and it made sense to get a stamp graded or for some other legitimate reason, I would get an updated cert but to get an updated cert just because the cert was old is not something I would do.
Whereas I would not hesitate to replace a set of tires that the mechanic says should be done as preventive maintenance, I appreciate the fact that there is new technology, but I'm thinking that space age technology is not all that necessary to evaluate a less than one inch by one inch piece of paper that has already passed muster by the time honored methods of visual inspection, strong light, high magnification, perf gauge, UV light, and dipping—and that just maybe the additional information gleaned from using a machine that costs thousands or tens of thousands maybe over the top.

Said another way: all of the new technology in the automotive world is not going to make my 1954 Oldsmobile run better than a mechanic who is knowledgeable about vintage autos, has access to the original shop manual, access to replacement parts and a BASIC set of tools.

Getting a fresh cert is kind of like getting an inspection sticker for your car every year (where applicable). What changed and does the buyer want assurance.

That being said, pulling the trigger on a new cert for a stamp that will just sit in your collection for years and may need another one at some point is probably not advised. But then heirs and disposal come into play.

It is a very interesting topic with no one right answer.

I only have 2 certs in my collection- both from Murray Payne in the UK who used to be the gold standard dealer in KGVI stamps. One is for Bahamas, the other for Sudan. Unfortunately Murray Payne was acquired by Stanley Gibbons a number of years ago so the certs may not age well, however the former proprietor Dickon Pollard is a current staffer at Stanley Gibbons.

Rodg: since I am now in NH and coincidentally just got my state mandated inspection for my out of state car, I can say that the reason I get my car inspected yearly is less because the state requires it and more because my wheels here are critical for me getting back and forth to the airport that is 55 miles a way than it is for day to day transport up here, where I can do fine with my 110cc scooter. To have a stamp with a perfectly good, clean cert, albeit old, be replaced for that reason alone makes no sense to me, unless you are doing it for grading purposes. Putting the date of the cert aside, what could a new cert say, besides the grade, that could enhance the opinion of a prior cert stating " genuine" or "genuinely, previously hinged."

19 certs total - US 1, 15 29, 38 and 75 and Hawaii 6 to name a few of the more notable ones.

I had a US Scott 313 that I purchased at auction with PF certificate 109338 stating "unused, o.g.". I placed the stamp on extension and it came back with PSE certificate 01368074 stating "It is genuine unused, REGUMMED, with four repaired perf tips at the left".

Far from the only example.

As I said, to each their own. Sometimes maybe it is better to not know?

For US, I have 101 certificates in hand that cover maybe 90 stamps give or take. In my case, many of these certs are for Washington-Franklins. But with very few exceptions, when buying something running say $300 or more, I want really recent certs or I will obtain them. Also when something is fraught like coils, and such. And I will want more certs as I move back into classics where I am personally far less cognizant of the ins and outs and where there are, statistically, more hidden repairs.

I recently had a Wash-Franklin coil worth maybe $150 come to me with a PSE cert that even I could see was flat out wrong as to the identification. The dealer took it back when I showed my evidence. In the last year I have rooted out of my collection a couple other coils I got years ago which likely were $30 to $50 which were uncertified and that are not what they were purported to be.

As to breakdowns:
24 are graded (most being PSE) edited to note these all came with the stamps, I do not submit for grading myself.
44 are PF, 33 PSE, 10 PSAG, 7 Crowe, 5 APS, 1 Weiss, and I will confess I have 1 Miller which I can hardly count for a rather obvious plate & imprint block of 424 "Coil Stamps" I've posted here.

Leaving the US, for France and my topical '39 New York World's Fair collection, I have a number of signed/stamped stamps which I do not count as certs. That leaves one Roumet for a French item, and a Miranda da Mota for a Portuguese India overprint. Even though I collect used French, in any number of cases (edited to clarify in particular big $ value or overprints), if and when I ever get them, I will want certs to be sure before I open my wallet and let them in the door.

In my opinion it's not knowing, rather level of confidence.
Otherwise every stamp would have to be expertised. In order to be absolutely positively assured that the US Scot 805 you have is exactly that.....
Obviously a leap of logic....
Just as a stamp sent from Kellehers to PF is a leap unless one has cause to be concerned.
I.e. A ton of money tied up and I WANT TO KNOW..... To be sure....
Cheers

Rodg: concerning your Scott 313—you are assuming that PSE was right and the PF was wrong. I don't accept that assumption. Referring to those foreign stamps and left over US classics that I sent to Weiss which were expertized as regummed: I have a dilemma here. I'm not willing or interested in sending to PF or PSE, nor do I trust the Weiss opinion to wash the gum off. We have both acknowledged our admiration and respect for Chris Rupp and by extension for me Allan Cohen who was associated with Rupp for many years. So let me tell you about two stamps I purchased from Rupp that were not expertized at the time I purchased them. One was an extremely fine centered unused Scott 121. If graded I suspect at least 85 but more likely 90. Chris offered it as unused genuine but uncertain whether og or RG. I bought it for $595 about 25 years ago and have never felt the need to certify it. I love it the way it is. The second was a Scott 109 advertised by Chris as genuine unused but probably regummed. I bought it as stated for $795 and then I sent it to PSE—> "genuine, unused, OG."

So that is my frame of reference and the basis for my approach to this.

I probably have 35-40 certs (all US). I would probably have many more if the price were more reasonable. In todays market (ebay/hip) it doesn't make sense to have most stamps certified if it costs you minimum $35-45 (postage/insurance/fees) plus 10% of catalog value (yes, catalog value, right?)

As a buyer, these days I am more likely to buy a higher value stamp with a cert, just so I know I'll be able to sell it more readily, but that's mostly for items that sell for north of $500. I don't find much issue selling items below $500 with or without a cert (except coils and imperfs).

Yes, I am. My reasoning is that over 35 years had passed since the PF examined the stamp and technology is now available that was not available then. I could be wrong. Or the PSE could be wrong. Or the PF could be wrong. Or...…..

They are all opinions, not absolutes.