How Many Expertizing Certificates Do You Have?

My 27 might need an updated cert: http://pfsearch.org/pfsearch/pf_grd...csperpage=10

My 31 is a space filler: http://psestamp.com/Cert/1322878/

My 34 is a nice-looking space filler I'm not in a hurry to replace - it has an older PSE cert, but I know it has small faults.

These stamps are difficult to find in sound condition, and certainly at anything near catalog price. I've bought several with older certs and returned them because a newer cert disclosed faults not listed on older certs.

Agree with @rodgcam - maybe I'm a little sensitive to being called a "cert collector." If you collect more expensive US stamps, certs are a necessity, or else you are going to be burned badly. There are way more fraudulent seemingly-high-value stamps than actual high-value stamps.

Does anyone stand behind their certs and pay for the loss when another cert says your stamp "is NOT genuine"?

What does a cert cost for a F/VF used #39? Is the cost the same if determined to be forgery? Or an unused #39? Same effort, right? Why is their a higher cost if it is genuine?

If you have 500 certs, one might infer that you've spent more on your certs than many people spend on their whole collection :-)

On the other hand I rarely dine out and am a jeans and t shirt kind of guy who does not smoke or drink. Priorities.

The reputable dealers will let you return stamps for any reason if you are reasonable with them, and certainly for a bad opinion on a certificate. You can also get your money back on the certs themselves, if they have made a mistake. But if the PF or PSE get to make the call on whether they made a mistake or not. And a different opinion isn't a mistake in their eyes. But the PF and PSE will also be reasonable. Certs cost about $30 until catalog value goes over $600. They discount heavily on faulty high-value stamps too. You do not have to pay $500 for a cert on a faulty stamp that catalogs for $10K in VF condition. Cost for certs on forgeries are priced at the lowest price (about $30) unless you have a Sperati or something.

Also dealers will reimburse you the cost of the cert in addition to taking a return if a stamp had undisclosed faults or is misidentified. Well, good dealers will. You can always ask.

Phil: agree with you completely. If you are spending good money on an item, you want to be as sure as possible that you are getting what you paid for.

James: the APS offers a guarantee of sorts but you would have to check their website for specifics. A used 39 catalogs for more than an unused one, having had limited service before being demobilized at the outbreak of the Civil War.

Most expertizers charge a % of catalog value accounting for different price ranges

Quite aware that a used #39 is higher catalog value than unused. Missing my point I think.

I do kind of have an issue with the fee based upon catalog value. As has been pointed out, in many instances it likely takes the same amount of effort or more to review a $300 stamp as it does a $5,000 stamp. Whenever I see a high value stamp on ebay with no cert I assume that there is good reason why. Either there was a cert that was negative or it is already known that paying the fee would be a loser because the outcome is already known.

Sorry James, no offense intended. I had no idea what you did or did not know about Scott 39. Just trying to be helpful.

Rogdcam, you asked a question I have asked several times in regards to catalog value versus the cost of the labor/technology/overhead or whatever. Why would one stamp be more expensive to reach an opinion on? Would understand on some sort of one-off or oddity/extremely rare example where there is not a lot of info or reference material, but my second (and last) experience with the APS was a stamp certified as genuine/unused which took 3 1/2 months to return on an 1869 US issue which there should have been a mountain of references to. They then (after telling me it was unused/legit) told me I owed them another 40 bucks or so. Last cert I've applied for and likely will for a long time; seems more like a scheme than just providing some basic info that should be pretty routine for an expert.

I have one Cert, it's for my 1851-57 Three Cent Experimental Orange Brown.

I mark in my dB whether or not a stamp has a cert. I have 90 check marks. That doesn't take into account multiple certs for the same stamp, but there are probably close to 20-25 multiple cert stamps. Of the 90, perhaps 15 or 20 were sent in by me. I just tend to buy stamps of the ilk and from the sellers that usually just have certs with the stamps. I have maybe 7 or 8 stamps with 3 or more certs and they all seem to be many years apart. And I don't recall any with differing opinions. I would guess 75% are PFC, 20% PSE and the remainder all other brands. I would never 'lose' a cert - I see them as part of the history of the stamp - like the opinion or not, history is history.

I am very leery of certain sellers - whether or not their stamp comes with a cert, I probably won't buy from them. Also, there are certain dealers that I would buy from even if the (valuable) stamp doesn't have a cert. I would then put it on extension and get one - that is the circumstance of most of the stamps that I have submitted myself. I can think of 3 stamps (and the actual number may be closer to 6 or 8) that I have returned due to an adverse opinion.

No matter each of our own knowledge base, a cert adds value when selling. When you buy whatever you collect, you may be POSITIVE that you have bought a sound, genuine example, and if that's good enough for your comfort level, then great for you. Except for a handful of collectors, though, when you go to sell, your opinion (and veracity of your opinion) of your stamp is likely meaningless to the buyer (assuming he isn't a buddy of your's). I assume that when I sell, there will be many certs gotten at that time - whether before or after the sale, I don't yet know.

As I give attention to the banter over certification, I am reminded of a chat I had some years ago with Kim Kellerman at Rasdales: Kim pointed out that the motivations for forming a collection are so diverse and individualized, that there can never be but one approach to serving the marketplace. The one thing collectors have in common is that everyone hopes to derive some satisfaction from their pursuit of the hobby. And to serve that diverse sea of opinions, Kim has learned to be equally tolerant of all styles of collector preference. He can do that because his interest is in the satisfied customer.

The occasional need for expertization has always been with us, but the enhanced importance of certification has its genesis in the decade of the nineteen eighties, and initially came about when it was possible to include stamps in a 401K investment program. In an investment program it was not important to "understand" what the stamps are, but rather to know how a stamp will fare in the marketplace. At that time the old emphasis upon identity and authenticity began to give ground to judgments of soundness and grading. In the late 80's and early 90's I worked with Randy in the early days of PSE writing opinions on grilled US stamps, but as the demand for opinions about perfs and centering, and overall grade grew in the marketplace, I lost interest. Truth be told, I did not trust my ability to make those kinds of judgements without specialized equipment, and was not interested enough in the process to go for it. But there are no sour grapes here. It is just a difference in style.

I must confess, however, that I am a little surprised at the way collectors quibble over the grading of the vast majority of stamps. If you can tell that a stamp is going to grade below a 90, save your money. If you can't tell that, what are you doing trying to buy something you are not ready for? Bragging rights? They belong to those who can do it for themselves. However, if your real interest is in building a solid investment, then forget everything I have said so far. For you the Scott catalog is of less interest or importance than SMQ.

Regarding certs the numbers that matter the most to me as a fellow collector are not how many certified stamps you have bought, but how many have you submitted for certification, and why. Based on auction house practice today I know that I have more than a hundred certified stamps, but of those I have only submitted maybe a half dozen for a cert. In no case was it to establish the grade. Most often it was to get a new discovery properly registered. That to me is still one of the most important functions of the expert committees, and to the extent they can reliably do that they will keep my respect.

I have perhaps 50 certificates for US stamps, but almost none are graded certs except maybe more common like like prexies. Most collections with large number of "graded" certificates are in high end, investment grade collections . Most hobbyists don't have the disposable income to have a large number of these graded certificates, as you end up chasing a dream your wallet or purse can't afford.

Over the last year I have moved away from collecting US stamps. Grading has turned me off a bit as I already have a very large collection. I am always willing to upgrade USA , but chasing graded certified stamps is expensive and to me personally, not fun.

Instead I have moved on to world wide collecting, and find myself more intrigued with looking through old collections of 19th century material and trying to discern real from forgery. To me, this has become the fun part of the hobby. To me a certificate is all about genuine vs. forgery (but also like to know if crease was pressed out or other alterations were done to fake a cancel or add perfs etc)