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8sen Koban Forgery .new Find

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Posted 10/29/2021   10:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add bicolor1875 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message



note top frame romaji
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Posted 10/30/2021   12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your scan is too poor to identify this stamp .

This stamp is from the first series of Kobans ,I doubt there is a website or a person who can identify this Wada forgery { if it is a forgery } .This is a very highly specialized and expensive area of philately. I had played with it about 12 years ago .
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Posted 10/30/2021   03:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is definitely a Wada forgery in the OP, the later lithographed type without the "sanko" characters. The suspiciously partial corner cancel is one used by Wada also. Per the OP's note, see the crooked lettering in the top tablet; genuine ones are not this badly done.

Genuine design:
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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/30/2021 11:56 pm
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Posted 10/30/2021   08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Like I said ,there isn't anybody around who can identify this forgery . There was three people who lived in the U.S. who knew the first series Wada Forgeries .

One lived in Elmhurst Il. about 2 miles from me . He past away 10 years ago . The other lived in Jacksonville Fl. and he died about 6 years ago and he was the APS expert and final authority on the subject ,his stuff is in a storage locker and his family never sold his collection from what I know . I asked his son if he wanted to sell all his research paper work ,me thinking no auction house wants this kind of stuff only his collection to sell .never got a call back about it . The last guy was Japanese in California and don't know anything about him .

Let me show the 8 sen WADA forgery ,then you will understand it better ,I have it in storage .
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Posted 10/30/2021   11:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
. This is from my WORLD FORGERIES COLLECTION . I have 23 pages in my collection on the first KOBAN issues alone . Earlier stated it is too difficult to identify which stamp it is .


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Posted 10/30/2021   12:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add eagle79 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This situation sounds like we are beginning to enter the realm of lost knowledge. Is there any existing published information on these forgeries in English or any other language? Are there any acknowledged experts out there, perhaps in Japan? Perhaps such information is buried in some lost, long shuttered journal, obscure monograph or foreign language study. If an interested party were to acquire these stamp issues, how would they responsibly authenticate them?
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Posted 10/30/2021   1:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 10/30/2021   8:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
floortrader, you'll have to explain better what you mean by "there isn't anybody around who can identify this forgery ". It sounds like you mean that Wada forgeries can't be told from the genuine, which is not true.

The OP's stamp is not from the first series of Wada forgeries, which are identifiable by being engraved instead of typographed, having the 2 characters making up "sanko" on the sides of the oval, and their cancels are typically ( but not always) fall into several types printed often in a graphite color (pencil lead color) that are often found incomplete at the edges.

If floortrader means the (second series) Wada litho forgeries, without "sanko", those typically have those cancel types mentioned above. These are litho productions of that period also – the genuine have sharp edges and details and these forgeries are muddier/rougher-looking. The litho forgeries are (probably) scarce, certainly much scarcer than the engraved ones. floortrader has a major collection of the litho forgeries.

eagle79, it's not lost knowledge. The engraved forgeries and some of the lithos are covered in The Koban Forgeries of Japan by Kr. Wilhelmsen and Varro Tyler, a 1979 paperback monograph first published in 1979 by the ISJP. This is monograph 8, still available from ISJP. It's cheap enough but really is more for students of forgeries.

floortrader's collection is showing both Wada forgery types and the Maeda/Kamigata forgeries also.

Here's the 8 sen (Scott 61) Wada engraved forgery:

hard to tell from the scan if it's engraved, but the key is also the characters shown by the red arrows reading "sanko" (meaning "reference"). That the thing is glued on piece is a very good tipoff that it is a forgery. Note here how the cancel is off-register enough so that it exposes a blank space of the design. Not all Wada forgeries are like this.

The obvious problem comes with the more scarcer and expensive stamps of the series. Here are what the value tablets/circles of what the genuine look like:

These are very sharp and clearly done. The numerals of the Kiri branch issues are evenly and finely outlined in white. The 45 and 50 sen values have additional partial outlines of the white shading in color.

The 16 sen is shown to show how well done the lettering is, not so true of the forgeries.

The 30 sen is the red violet shade.

Found a 45 sen forgery online, the upper example of the two shown below. It is the (obvious?) engraved type probably with "sanko" carefully covered by a fake cancel:

Compare the right value circles. Ignore the size difference; no effort was made to make sizes match up.

I'll throw in that if you know the colors the genuine come in, the difference is often clear. The Wada forgeries come in shades, though.

Mint copies are known of the Wada engraved forgeries, so we might expect litho ones, too. However, a lot of the ones for the better values were reported to have been used by other forgers that added forged cancels.

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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/30/2021 11:45 pm
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Posted 10/30/2021   11:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't see too much about koban forgeries in the cumulative index for the ISJP regular publication Japanese Philately. I did run across this in my stuff:


This again a Wada engraved forgery of the 8 sen value. The stamp design is complete here, and it has the usual fake cancel type. But note that this is from a worn plate that has been re-engraved in sketchy fashion. Diagonal lines have been put in to fill in most of the worst spots.
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Posted 10/31/2021   12:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hy-Brazil - Thank you for the excellent information. Very helpful.
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Posted 10/31/2021   12:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
HY-BRASIL ---- I would have to dig out my records to answer you ,It has been 15 to 12 years ago that I had a interest in these stamps and have since moved on . What I was saying is there are different types in the Wada forgeries Not as you said the difference between real stamps and forgeries ,that is easy ,A expert opinion would get into shades and types of forgeries .

Since you mentioned the high values ,I will give you this scan of a few 50 sen values that I have .
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Edited by floortrader - 10/31/2021 01:10 am
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Posted 10/31/2021   01:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
WADA forgery is on the right,notice the perfs .
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Posted 10/31/2021   06:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks, floortrader! An impressive group!
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Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 10/31/2021   07:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An excellent site for these:

https://japanstamps.org/
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Posted 10/31/2021   1:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Calstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thanks for posting, Roger.

Lois Evans di Violini is an expert re Japanese philately. Very active is ISJP circles. And very gracious re sharing her knowledge.
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Posted 10/31/2021   3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
, Calstamp!
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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
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