What Town Was This Envelope Sent From And Proper Rate?

I agree and often have had a similar reaction. First a wash of frustration and then followed by the justification that it benefits the hobby when listings are improved. (We always have plenty of posts and threads about poor quality listings; helping them improve is definitively a plus.)

My somewhat cynical perspective is that every relationship in life has a 'give and take' aspect to it. It does not matter if the relationship is your spouse, a friendship, or a casual business relationship with a stamp dealer. When one party starts feeling like they are getting the short end of the stick, that they are giving more than they are receiving, the relationship begins to feel out of balance.

I think we see this in this community too. If the community begins to feel that a relationship is becoming one-sided, the number and quality of the replies can begin to decrease.

To keep things in balance, we can give back in many ways with the most obvious being financial donations. (Note, I am a non-paid volunteer here and do not have insight into the site financials. But Bobby does a good job in keeping up the member supporter status badges, so it is easy to see who is making financial donations.)

But folks can also give back to the community in non-financial ways too. Donating time and effort in the community by helping with answering inquiries and welcoming new members is an important aspect of keeping the community and hobby thriving. And lastly, folks can also support the sponsors and advertisers.

Social media participation can be an important part of online business but to be successful it has to be perceived as two-way street.
Don

Sorry for the double post...
I think this issue can be seen with some of the 'treasure hunters' type threads... A new poster enters the community and we have an opportunity to interest them in a new hobby. But they post a large number of images and new threads inquiring if they have found a windfall and sometimes seeking a full appraisal of a large collection. The community wants to be helpful by we all know that a good appraisal can sometimes carry a significant cost.
By and large I think the community does a great job in helping folks but works best when everyone remains mindful of the 'give and take'.
Don

So I am confused, what do you want me to do? Your site doesn't state any where that you can't use this knowledge gained for monetary gain. Or are you saying if I posted, that I am trying to sell this up front, you or others can chose not to give me advice? The internet has opened up collecting to the masses with knowledge available so that a person can better understand what he or she is collecting with less risk of being taken. Remember this hobby is strife with scammers! New finds and conformation of those finds are happening every day because of your site. And I appreciate that! I do collect certain items, but to pay for them I need to sell items that are not of my interest. I am not a wealthy person and I try to make all my hobbies pay for themselves. And if you look, which I assume you did, I don't sell a lot of items or high value items. 2021 Sales less than $1500. I have also sold to several well known forum advice givers, since they helped greatly to answer my questions. So again my knowledge is very limited in being able to offer advice, so only option is me giving back in monetary support. Which I am happy to do! But would that suffice or would you still be frustrated that I am using this site for knowledge and monetary gain? And looking at 80 percent of postings I would also assume they are using the knowledge for monetary gain. Either short term or long term. I think that is great for the hobby! A smart investor! The more money we show that you can earn from collecting, brings others into this dying hobby. I talk up stamp collecting all the time to my friends! I have pictures on my phone and I explain what it is, what I paid and what it sold for. They are amazed and fascinated. I play on several sports teams and none of my friends collect anything. But I always have stories to tell them about my collecting adventures!

It is NOT my site, I only volunteer my time here. I was trying to offer you some advice and I am not going to waste more time explaining it.
Don

To Monday morning quarterback this thread since I grumbled the most. It centers around communication, especially "fuller disclosure" at the beginning:

Honestly, I felt "used" yesterday. The thread would have set a more accurate tone by sharing your cards up front. To say: "I need help describing this item which I intend to sell on ebay..." This way we all know the background purpose of the thread, whether to enhance a person's collection/exhibit or his pocket. Yes, some will choose to answer (or not) based on that additional background. I enjoy mystery threads like this, yet knowing the purpose, I probably would have answered more briefly myself to say "Looks like a collector sending for a souvenir postmark" and not done the Postal Bulletin digging.

As an aside, we might then have addressed (an unasked question) whether the cover was worth the time to list on ebay relative to its value. In my experience, this type of cover would languish in a $1 box as the cancel is so weak to make it non-collectible.

Granted people change their minds too. They intend to keep something, then 6 months later they get a better example and sell the original item using their additional knowledge gained here. Things happen. But this was all within half a day.

It would also have been nice to have a followup post within the thread to notify us that the lot had been listed on ebay if any of the Community were interested in bidding on it - rather than having us discover it listed ourselves.

Please keep posting items you have questions about, but try to provide fuller background information next time.

Okay, sorry Don. Correct it is not your site but you are a big part of it, which I appreciate! This site has a lot to offer and many don't even know its there. Maybe I can give a few suggestions on how we can work together better?

1. State in your rules or mission statement (which I can't find) what you are about.

2. State in your rules that if you are here to get information to help collecting, buying and selling stamps, that you should please consider donating for the forums knowledge base either annually or monthly. Maybe give a suggestion - $10 a month? Tell them knowledge is money! And that the forum would be more eager to help knowing you are supporter of the community. Then attached the link for donating.

3. When a new person joins send him the link to your rules and donation suggestions and other ways to support this community. Maybe a sign-off showing that the rules were read.

4. Post another daily or weekly forum showing your members recent finds. Have them tell the story of finding and researching the item (on this site) and if selling, the amount sold for. A treasure story! Then have someone send this post out daily or weekly to a news outlet and or a collector blogger (maybe even a you tube video) who would post these and having a link back to your site.

5. Link up to boyscouts and girlscouts websites offering knowledge support for their collecting merit badges.

6. Connect with the religious groups that make the kiloware and offer free listings of items for sale through this site.

7. Make it easier to sell on this site. The current format doesn't seem to draw many sales. Linking to ebay is great but limited when a lot of your members don't like ebay. When someone is asking for advice and wanting to sell the item, have an icon next to the items post so everyone will know the poster is interested in selling. Encourage others interested to contact the poster and that it is welcome!

I like analogies. This reminds me a lot of going to an auto repair shop and asking the mechanic who put the work in to become ASE certified how to repair a friends climate control system and then leaving with the knowledge and charging your friend for that knowledge or work. Good luck finding a mechanic that would do that first of all because that knowledge has a real value and they worked hard to learn it. Secondly it is unfair.

Trying to justify what was done by assigning a dollar level does not cut it. There is no magical level below which it becomes OK.

Going forward, every item I post I will add the fact that the item is for sale in the title. Maybe add this to your posting rules? The last thing I want here is to cause frustration to other members. Please accept my apologies!

All --

Just to clarify my post from last night -- the specific SCF experience that led me to commenting on the subject under discussion involved an SCF Member who, in hindsight, repeatedly feigned an interest in the subject of plating -- with the stamps then popping up on ebay a few days later -- happened 3 times over a span of months -- all from the same SCF Member.

Didn't really think much about it at first -- as the "value add" was that the ebay listing was accurate -- but after the 3rd time, I looked at the SCF Member's "other ebay listings" and realized that they were not a casual collector selling an unwanted "one-off" item, but rather a full time commercial dealer with over 500 listings at any given point in time. It was at that point that I felt "used".

Dealers, auction houses, expertizers, and collectors are all an integral part of the "community" -- but IMO it seems disingenuous for a full time dealer who is operating a "for profit" commercial enterprise to feign an interest in a subject with the real motive apparently being to flip a stamp and improve profitability. With regard specifically to my SCF experience as described above -- if one were to give the "benefit of doubt" that the true motive was altruistically to insure an accurate ebay listing for the benefit of the hobby -- then why the need to feign the interest in seeking to further ones philatelic knowledge.

That said -- as I mentioned in my prior post -- but worth repeating -- while at first I felt "used", and my "knee jerk" reaction was that if a full-time dealer wants a stamp plated for commercial purposes, they should send the stamp in for a cert and pay the plating fee -- after I calmed down a bit and thought about it some more, I rationalized that it was still good for the hobby if even one other collector reading the post got something out of it -- and even better if it sparked an interest in the subject.

Just my $0.02.

Regards // ioagoa

edited for clarity only -- (i.e., deleted all references to "OP" and replaced with a generic reference to "SCF Member" -- as the SCF experience I described above occurred in a different SCF thread and was not with the OP of that thread).

Wow, $19 PLUS $11.60 shipping? For what normally goes for a couple of bucks, if that? Not to mention a stiffener in a #10 envelope would move the cover just fine for 58 cents. Boy THE SCF must be a real value added organization.




If you want to feel even worse John Becker, if you tried to buy the item, you will not get much of a discount from the seller even though you are the one that provided the information upon which the above described pricing is based.




Do you think that may be due to some of the seller games played?

Refreshing to see this topic pop up.

When SCF members offer advice, it generally is not offered from the top of the head. It involves, sometimes, expensive reference material
Time researching the advice, extensive libraries and or specialist knowledge.

It is pertinent that we can reflect on the sensibilities of the "give and take" here.
A good opportunity to observe and appreciate "Netiquette"

How harmful can just a full disclosure be ? just a few words of intention, and donation ? a simple occaisional $5 or $10 gift to show appreciation, and prolong / support one of the greatest Stamp Forums in the world.

This was NOT a case of 'gee, I didn't know that there is a price for knowledge here'. Learning something and then using what you learned is quite different than 'copy and pasting' images and content into an ebay listing.

Since there seems to be some confusion, allow me to clarify. Starting a thread and ask for help with an identification is fine. Stealing the copyrighted content, including images, is NOT the same thing and is NOT allowed (see copyright notice at bottom of every page). Legally if you are going to 'copy and paste' content from this community, for any reason, then you will need written permission before you do it.
On an ethical and professional level, no one should be taking content without at least asking first AND giving attribution. This is common sense, common courtesy, and basic consideration of others (even for non-commercial usages).

Let's move on now...
Don