Time To Play - "You're The Expert"!

To add a rephrasing: Reduce the uncertainty and buy coils ALREADY with certs where someone else has made that investment/risk for you.

One can't necessarily tell from the scan. Maybe you can tell the exact correct perf gauge and hole size by sight, but I can't. You have to measure. Plus there's no information about the back.

just fella's comments are nothing but speculation based on pure fantasy. Straight edges on coils are not formed, they are cut with rotary knives on wheels, like pizza cutters. Those cutters can be very sharp or rather dull so there may be fibers or not. There's aging to consider, also. As for the straight edges looking wavy, shouldn't we be measuring rather than eyeballing? Further, the straight edges must be absolutely parallel. The perfs lining up is absolute bull when it comes to Washington-Franklins, though alignment might get you an extra point or two on your certificate grading; it does happen.

canyoneer, I don't know what your requirements are, but a pasteup pair might fill the bill. These are rather disliked except by specialists and are very unlikely to have been forged. Another choice is buying a line pair. Either could be reperfed or the line can be drawn in, so if you don't know how to determine how to distinguish those, then a third choice presents itself. That is, instead of looking for that huge bargain on ebay or Billsbargain, buy it from a US dealer of the caliber of the late Stanley Piller. If someone doesn't trust someone like that, then they a) are in big trouble and b) should have learned US coils by themselves. The references are out there.

Also you talked about filling a space with a 393. Does that mean you have all the rest of the perf 8 1/2 coils are are you just trying to obtain an example of one?

As I step on the soapbox: there's something to be said about plugging spaces in an album, but since you are spending a good chunk of change to buy W-F coils, shouldn't you learn about what makes them tick and what characteristics distinguish forgeries from genuine? Not to mention identifying good reperfing and good regumming and not just the obvious? The W-F coils references by Schmid and Armstrong are out there but now somewhat expensive, but not more expensive than a lot of W-F coil pairs. And that's only because hardly anyone bought them when they came out. If the majority of W-F collectors bought those books and knew their stuff, the flood of those forgeries would not continue.

Depending on certificates for identification of most W-Fs is a crutch in my view. Certificates have been forged in the past and will be again. And just because you have a certificate now doesn't mean that someone will expect to have a new one when it comes time to sell. If anyone out there likes being the Wile E. Coyote, Genius, of stamp collectors, keep your blinders on.

My reference for coils is Martin A. Armstrong. The top edge and bottom edge must be parallel and measure +- .1 mm of 25 mm. Anything else is suspicious.Edges must be parallel. " A "plate was used for this issue, measurement between stamps will be between 2.75 to 3.2 mm. If this stamp is fake then the Perfs have been faked. (About 50% are fake), Armstrong recommends the 3,4 or 5 cent of this series be used as template.
I have this issue several times w/o certificate but using a certificated 396 and a 10X glass have satisfied my curiosity. If you are looking to purchase a genuine 393, the only recourse is to buy one with certificate.
Cheers, mark

Forget 50%, it's more like 90% fake.

Rev collector, ouch!

Edit,additional thought.
Generally speaking if a coil is MNH that gets my curiosity up. If a coil is perfectly centered that greatly adds to my curiosity. If the coil is expensive, think Scott 388, or 356 w/o certificate my curiosity becomes total skepticism. 393 is inexpensive so I would be curious, not skeptical. I love these early coils, especially used, as they often have neat cancels. Also as paste ups I think they are neat. Mint not so much.
Cheers, m

What's interesting is the various opinions from everyone. Too bad we all can't read the notes from the people that render the opinion which would be helpful to collectors (or maybe we don't want to know ... ). Seems like it should be like a home inspection report which might state "outlets are ungrounded" not "just doesn't feel right".

I agree with you hy_brasil about the paste up pairs/singles. I'm actually surprised these don't command more of a premium. My 5c in these perf 8.5's is a paste up single. Not quite a built in certification but better than nothing. My 3c came with a recent PSE. The 2c isn't exactly blank - I have a 2c used I got years ago that looks good to me. Guess I'll stick with it.

Unfortunately, that is not really a good idea. Even the inexpensive coils have been faked. Paste-up pairs get faked too, although less often. As has been stated above, buy coils that already have certs.

The dilemma also might be that some aren't worth the price of a cert. I have a pair of 442's that appear to be unhinged which would give the guide line pair a cat value of $130. It's a decent centered pair but nothing special so maybe a grade of 75-80. Real world value is I'd hope to get $40 in a sale so the cost of the cert kills that sale.