Scott 599 Joint Line Singleton ID

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I note my joint line is thick, is this genuine?
Any members have example of "Carmine Lake"?

Rod, these joint lines come in different widths, it just depends


Peter

Great!
Thanks Peter. Noted.

Sheesh.
After I posted, I found the thread I had been looking for
https://goscf.com/t/80660 br /

Rod, I believe yours is real. The color seems to be the same as the stamp itself. On the pair risny posted the color seems to be off. Also, if you look at your perforations they have a bit of white around them, an indication that the perforation happened after the printing


Peter

(The recent threads on fake added lines are essentially useless for comparison.)

On rotary coils, the joint is exactly that, a "joint" where two semi-circular plates were bolted together. The joint then accumulated ink and printed. When the plates butted together perfectly they made a thin line, when less perfect they made a thicker line. Also, stamps across a rotary line pair are often misaligned slightly, with one being higher than the other, visible in the pair you posted. There is no doubt your single stamp is a Scott 599 showing joint line at left. Very common, but still interesting.

As an aside, on flat plate coils, the line of a line pair is the center guide line intended for cutting the press sheet into retail panes, thus an engraved line on the plate is typically of constant width.

Bottom line (pun intended!): "Not all lines are equal." Lines may look alike, but they may have different origins and purposes.

Joint lines seem to come in various widths and occasional odd ways, like this:


From what I can see in your example I believe it is legit.

The edges are dead straight, the color consistent horizontal across the line. As John Becker described, a true joint line is from the joint between plates. A joint will have a left plate edge and a right plate edge. As ink is captured on these edges it is transferred in the normal printing manner. Depending on the gap size and the amount of ink built up in the joint, you will get two thin lines (one from each plate edge) up to two thick lines or when filled in fully with ink one wider line. The width of that wide line will be determined by the gap between the curved plates when attached to the press cylinder.

Thank you one and all,
Great thread, fully explained.

I copy (with due accreditation) important paragraphs
from John & etc, and paste into Notebook, Notepad
and take an image that sits alongside the stamp and its Cat Number
(Never to be forgotten)

That said, "Caper 123" example still mystifies me how that may have occurred.

rod222 - I am going to be the contrarian. I think the line is faked. I don't think the color is exactly the same as the rest of the stamp. It appears to be as close to the same color without being the same color, though. Like a 1/4 of 1/2 of a shade different. The tamp seems to be more 'carmine-y' and the line seems to have a 'red' tint not seen in the rest of the stamp. This is extremely subtle, to say the least. The color doesn't appear to be laid down evenly, either. There are globs especially noticeable at the top. Specifically, it looks almost like the "guy's pen" stopped at the top, instead of continuing on past the top. These lines would go much farther to the edge of the 'sheet' before ending, and then the 'sheets' were cut into coils. And, ditto for the bottom - it just appears to end at the bottom instead of continuing on and getting cut, mid-line. At both top and bottom, the width of the line seems to get narrower - at the left of the line at bottom and on both right and left at top. I wouldn't count on the width of the line as a factor - although this one is definitely wider than normally seen, I doubt it is too wide to disqualify it.

In its defense, I don't know why anyone would fake a 'line single'. All I can think is that they tried to fake a mint line pair, didn't like the outcome, and then used the stamps as postage.

It is a weird little item!

Because it isn't faked.

A polite observance,
I really don't mind a contrary take, as long as it is opined with courtesy. It's all part of the mix.
That said, I remain with the consensus, as genuine.

Also



In one aspect, I agree, but, the discussion on the faked line (I found absorbing) was to bring to the table, the fact of the appearance around the perforation holes.

The faked lines ID around the holes, and Peter's observation of my white flecks around the perimeter substantiating perforation was completed after the print, added to my own opinion,
and would have been poorer with out the discussion on the faked line.

Rod222 - I do have a certified carmine lake(634b) plate block but am hesitant to post it here as somewhat slight color variants do not reproduce well. Might I suggest you check out the Siegel site and search for carmine and carmine lake shades there for comparison. They will likely be done with the same scanning equipment and might provide a better comparison. Or, check out this link to a discussion and photos https://goscf.com/t/57627&SearchTerms=634b

Thanks Caper ! Perfect

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That is quite the dismissive attitude for civil discourse. My hat is off to you, sir!!! If you cared to read the very next sentence of the post, it COULD explain why a faked 'line single' could exist. Unless, of course, it simply isn't faked. If one starts with that premise, then all else after that is moot.

Sorry, but there is ZERO reason to believe this has any fake characteristics to it. It required no lengthy text.

Why would anyone bother to fake a line on this anyway? Even if it was a carmine lake, it would add nothing to the value.