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APS Certificates Real Vs Forged? How To Tell?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 594Next Topic  
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Posted 05/08/2022   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Jarnipman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi everyone,

This is my first post after joining this afternoon so hello to everyone! I was motivated to join because I am for the first time truly stuck on a stamp and am looking for input.

I have a very interesting and potentially extremely rare stamp that I am trying to evaluate that has an APS certificate from the 1960s, listing the stamp as genuine. I apologize in advance for not posting a photo of the stamp or certificate just yet because if it is genuine, it might be one of the only known examples and it will be a big deal, or at least I have never heard of one being discovered and Scott is unable to value the stamp. Thus I am very skeptical and suspect a shenigan on this stamp.

The stamp appears genuine, and my skepticism is with the APS certificate.

Here is my question:

Does anyone know if APS certificates were commonly forged or faked in the 1960's and is there a website with photos of genuine APS certificates by year? The certificate is embossed and watermarked and smells very old. I realize the best way to determine if the certificate is real is to send it to APS, but just wanted to get some thoughts. And I do plan on sending the stamp and certficate to APS and they will know right away if their certificate is real. I'm just kind of curious now because I know that process could take a few months.

Thanks


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Edited by Jarnipman - 05/08/2022 6:56 pm

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Posted 05/08/2022   7:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is no reason to not post photos of the certificate and stamp. What do you think would happen? Nobody can offer any real advice without more info from you other than to tell you to do what you have already mentioned, call APS.
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Posted 05/08/2022   7:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GMC89 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jarnipman, I have found the APS folk incredibly helpful and quick responding to my inquiries. Ken Martin and Scott English are very helpful, and both will reply to an email. Personally, I would direct this inquiry to Ken.
Good luck in your endeavor.
mark
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Posted 05/08/2022   7:21 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome.
I agree, to receive the most useful feedback an image of both the stamp and the cert is called for.

Certs do have a 'shelf life', both the knowledgebase and technology have advanced far beyond what was understood in the 1960s. But without images, we are just throwing darts in the dark.
Don
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Posted 05/08/2022   7:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jarnipman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone. I guess since I just joined this forum, I was reluctant to post the stamp and cert without knowing much about the forum. I don't mind posting the cert and photo when I get back home for pics. It's a Scott 317 5c coil in what appears to be in one of the finer grades. I know this is a rare stamp. What makes it really interesting is that it is expertised as used on a small piece. Scott catalogue has a dash for it, which makes me wonder what the value of this would be. Am I correct that there are not many examples of u 317's that actually went into circulation? I can't find any records online of used 317s being sold and if I saw a 317 without a cert I would immediatly say it's a trimmed 304, but this one has the cert, thus you can see why I am very skeptical about the cert. I think it is most likely that I have a trimmed 304 with a fakes APS cert, thus I am planning on sending both back to APS

Adding in, that under high magnification and after taking measurements, I have no reason to believe this stamp is trimmed. It looks genuine, but I'm not an expertiser and I have to trust the cert I have, which I don't
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Edited by Jarnipman - 05/08/2022 7:41 pm
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Posted 05/08/2022   9:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jarnipman - You have reason to be skeptical. Siegel has never sold a used 317 and the Philatelic Foundation has only had two submitted as used and they were both found to have been trimmed. As Don stated, much has changed in expertizing since 1966 and the cert could be genuine, but a new review would overturn it.

I would still very much like to see some photos.

PS: If the APS cert turns out to be genuine, I would submit the stamp to the Philatelic Foundation for an opinion just to put the thing to rest. I could not sleep without knowing for certain that the case is closed one way or the other.
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Posted 05/08/2022   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jarnipman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks rodgcam, I think I'm going to start a new post since this one was about identifying certs in general. Please everyone look to my new post in a moment about the 317 in question and I would appreciate your feedback
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Posted 05/08/2022   10:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jarnipman,
Please don't start a second thread. Just post your images here.
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Edited by John Becker - 05/08/2022 10:34 pm
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