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Hamburg From Whence The Forgeries Originate?

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/26/2022   10:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rod222 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1434 Posts
Posted 12/26/2022   11:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is there a question or concern here that I'm missing?
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/26/2022   11:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just if anyone recognises this, and for what use?
It seems to make no sense.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1434 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   12:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, same was for sale on Hipstamp a while ago for $40 (https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/st...d/12199143), and is also here now: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354234123173?chn=ps
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Edited by classic_paper - 12/27/2022 12:02 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   12:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm my bad,
I was remiss in not searching ebay.

Thanks a lot, CP, so an "essay proof"
methinks a cinderella, happy to be proven otherwise.
I find it hard to understand why people go to this effort
for such things.



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Edited by rod222 - 12/27/2022 12:13 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7072 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   12:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some people are jerks; others are idiots.
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Valued Member
195 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   06:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essay_proof to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Essay-Proof" is a misnomer. There really is no such thing in philately. Here are some basic definitions and conventional terminologies:

An essay is a print of a stamp that is in some way different from the issued stamp. There are other types of essays, but that's the basic definition.

A proof is a carefully made print of a final stamp design. A proof can be of the die (one subject) called a die proof. Proofs were often made of the finished plates: plate proofs.

Sometimes, engravers would make prints from a die while the engraving of the design was at an interim stage of execution. Such a print can be referred to as a "progressive proof" or "progress proof." But the better term to use is "die essay" or "progress essay" because:

(a) the design was made from a die
(b) the design is different from the issued stamp

Hence, die essay.

Such items represent about the only opportunity for the use of the term "essay-proof," but in doing so we're entering a semantic gray area. In short, philatelic artifacts related to the production or evolution of a design are essays, and prints of the finalized design are proofs.

HTH
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   06:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes it did help, and saved.

I did know of it from Melville
but not seen it so eloquently described !

Many Thanks

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1434 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   11:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I for one didn't interpret the listing as describing the item as an "essay proof." I understood instead, that the seller was just using those two words in the title to capture a buyer searching for either term, and was saving space by not using "and/or."
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8407 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   11:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That was issued many years later and was issued in relation to a philatelic exhibition .
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8407 Posts
Posted 12/27/2022   11:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As I said ,these reprints where made many years later .
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Posted 12/27/2022   12:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is easy for you to see the first row going down in black was cut from that above sheet ,just by the excess paper in the margins .The 1 ,3, and 7 edging of paper .
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8407 Posts
Posted 12/28/2022   07:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Forgot the 2 value also has the corner cut ,thanks for the e-mail notifying me .
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Bedrock Of The Community
12554 Posts
Posted 12/28/2022   7:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These stamps were made by stamp dealer Julius Goldner of Hamburg in the late 1890's in order to bilk sell to collectors.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8407 Posts
Posted 12/28/2022   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe Julius Goldner's forgeries were better design and looked more like the original stamps . Those examples above both scans look almost like something that was computer printed .
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Bedrock Of The Community
12554 Posts
Posted 12/28/2022   9:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I believe Julius Goldner's forgeries were better design and looked more like the original stamps .


Some of his reprints looked better but he printed hundreds of thousands of these things, and some were not that good. He made a fortune on this stuff.
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