Philatelic Use Or Conventional?

I'm trying to get a feel for what people consider philatelic use, v. real postal history.

I have no question that the letters I send with 12 -- 5 cent stamps is considered philatelic use, even if it is a letter to my mom or paying a bill.

I also consider "first day covers" that are cancelled days after the date on the postmark philatelic use as well.

How about:

Modern imperfs. They are not sold over the counter at post offices. What about those, since they all go to collectors. I have a few covers using those imperfs that I got when I bought a stamp on ebay. What if I send myself a letter with one of those imperfs so I can get a postally used cover? Or, since they all went to collectors first, are they all philatelic use?

What if I am trying to get a legitimate use of the current school bus (2nd ounce) stamp? If I send it to myself, is that a philatelic use? What if I ask my mom to go to the post office and send me her next letter using that specific stamp?

What if I go to my job, pull out a piece of stationary and affix the stamp I want used on cover, and mail it to myself. Maybe that is philatelic use, but how could anyone tell?

I'd love to read other people's thoughts on this.

thanks

Joe

That is not automatically true, depending on the era and specifically which stamps were used. I have a large censored cover from 1940 sent to Germany with 15 2 cent stamps (all the same stamp, one of the Famous American series) making up the rate. I doubt it was philatelic, I think this was simply what was available to the sender at the time.

Actually, "real" postal history is a rather different animal from what most stamp collectors consider it to be. The history of communications between places far and wide is one thing. The marking on a letter from Rufus T Firefly via the Topeka Donkey Express is a rather narrower thing.

Unless the first day cover is an ordinary letter franked with a stamp on the day of issue and receiving an ordinary cancellation it is safe to say

I think what NSK is drawing attention to are numerous "unofficial" cancels of first day covers, where FDCs are postmarked on the FDOI in cities or locations other than the official location for the first day of issue. Most of these will betray their philatelic character from the use of cachets, and, in the modern era, the lack of an addressee. There is not much controversy these days about the philatelic nature of FDOI covers.

Actually, I am pointing out that a first day cover, essentially, is philatelic, irrespective of whether it was cancelled on the day of issue or later.

But there always will be covers franked with a stamp bearing an ordinary cancellation for the issue date of that stamp and that actually may have contained a love letter to one's sweetheart.

When it says "first day of issue" odds are it is philatelic 100% of the time..

Just because a mail piece is sent to or from a collector or dealer does not automatically make it "philatelic". Each item should be evaluated on its own merits. Revcollector provided such an example.

First days almost always have some collector inspiration behind them no matter what efforts are made to disguise it. The imperf press sheets are also such a case. They are almost always bought by collectors and used by them, so not much choice but to get them on cover any way you can.

It is fairly easy to use "controlled mail" to get used on-cover examples on ordinary-looking mail pieces as you suggest by mailing items to yourself or to/from organizations and businesses you have links to. I know of collectors who will pay for the postage for the RSVP envelopes sent in wedding invitations of friends just to get the used commemoratives.

I find it best to use actual examples, rather than theoretical. Let's use one which starts down that slippery slope. Here is a scan cropped from a flat for Dan Mayo's auction catalog in 1993, franked with 3 then-current definitive stamps exactly paying 1.67 for the 7-ounce rate in effect at that time. Is it philatelic? I vote "no". If this were a seed catalog from your local nursery, it clearly would not be philatelic, and I find this to be the same case of a stamp businessman conducting his business with the minimum number of current stamps. (And as an aside, quite a nice rate piece and use!)

I disagree. It is a non-contemporaneous use, but I would not call it a philatelic use. Even if you are a philatelist and used stamps from your collection, it still sounds like a commercial use. Is any letter sent from Herman Herst, even to pay a bill, a philatelic use?
The dance studio that uses blocks of the old 13-cent modern dance stamps on their mailings, is that a philatelic use?

Modern First Day Covers on the other hand are almost always a philatelic use. Except for those marketing advertisements from the 1960s "Please accept this first day cover with our compliments. Here is our latest price list of lumber . . .", I consider those commercially used because they had a legitimate business purpose rather than just creating the collectible object.



I am OK with that. Even though sent between collectors, I consider that a commercial use. Others may disagree.
It also depends on context. The 25c "missing bee" coil (US 2281b), if used on a letter from a business in Midland Texas in 1990, it is a commercial use. If used on a letter mailed in 2020, I would strongly suspect philatelic use (possibly by someone trying to create a $100 cv cover out of a $45 cv stamp). It would be a commercial use only if there is good evidence, such as being found used on a pre-printed envelope to pay a water bill.



Philatelic use. Because the sole purpose of the letter is to get the stamp returned to you used on a cover to put in your collection.

Until 2018 I used to work with a large British company that organized vacations, housing, insurance and all kinds of other services for seniors. The guys at the post room used to save all the envelopes from incoming mail for me, and I'd take them home to sort through the stamps. I was amazed at how many old stamps I'd find, many going back to the early 1970s. I imagine some were used by collectors disposing of duplicates, or by people who had bought bulk lots of stamps on ebay for below face value, but I imagine a high proportion were just used by elderly people who came across stamps in a drawer that they'd bought for postage years ago and forgotten about.

I once found a note on the back of an envelope with a return address requesting the company to return the stamps - obviously the sender thought we were a small operation, rather than a business with several hundred employees where incoming mail was put through a machine and the envelopes sliced open before the letters were sent to the appropriate departments! That sender DID get his stamps back, but he was very lucky!

Philatelic mail to me means something that was created and sent through the mail system just to be a collectible item.

If an item actually goes through the official mail channels with the correct postage it is not philatelic in my opinion since they are actual mail. FDCs and event covers that are handed to a clerk who then cancels them and hands them back without going through the regular mail channels are philatelic. Also, putting a $5 stamp on an ordinary first class mail letter is philatelic in my opinion as there is no legitimate postal need for all of that extra postage.

As much as I value Kimo's expertise in all matters involving aerophilately, I think I would agree with Stallzer that just because it is sent through the mail doesn't make it non-philatelic. During WWII lots of patriotic covers went through the mail stream, often, or even usually, without any contents. Noted producers of patriotic covers would send mail covers back and forth from each other, just to create, as Stallzer says, a "collectible." I think most postal history buffs would would consider such mail as philatelic, even though it went through the mail stream. So going through the mail stream with the correct postage does not automatically make something non-philatelic. The ultimate factor is "intent," and in any realm of endeavor, there will be circumstances where "intent" is difficult to discern beyond reasonable doubt. So there will always be disputes about whether some particular item is philatelic or not.

Interesting opinions on this topic. Good to learn from the experts in SCF.
In this example below, thinking regular commercial mail. I love the franking on this cover. Postal worker did a lot of work on this cover.

Let's add a few contradictory examples for sake of completeness ---
(a) a FDC is always "philatelic"? Many firms and concerns (including nonprofits) took advantage of the marketing aspect of FDCs (i.e., the Post Office using FIRST DAY OF ISSUE in cancel) to conduct their OWN marketing ... putting some of their advertising in FDCs mailed to clients or prospects. Not philatelic but postal history: A commercial or nonprofit concern using the "philatelic" opportunity to carry out their own marketing.

(b) I know of one printing firm in New York for commercial example, but most know of Boys Town of Nebraska in 1950s - 1970s or so doing same; they both put out their usual business or fund-raising mailings in envelopes franked with commemoratives with a preprinted message about the specialness of the stamp.
In the case of the printing firm, perhaps not "over the top" but to me, the Boys Town folks overdid it. having the bottom of their zillions of envelopes preprinted with something like "this is a collectible commemorative no longer on sale at the post office" was to attract attention to their message inside, not realizing that the simplicity of not having such a garish printing would give their mail a personal touch look like any recipient's family or friends might send them... with a commemorative stamp and postmark, versus the rising use of imprints and meters if not common regular stamps like coils added by machine.
Are these philatelic or conventional, or "both" ?

I send FC mail all of the time with wall to wall three cent commemoratives. None of it is going to fellow collectors (at least that I know of). What will someone make of my work in the future?

Prospective future Spink sale, I should imagine: "Fine lot of the famed "Rodg postage covers", many sealed with authentic Alsatian slobber (PSE cert., 2050)".