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Can Someone Enlighten Me On This Apparent 540A 2c Type III Imperf Between?

 
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Posted 01/16/2024   5:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rlsny to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was about to list it as it seems to check out on most counts - type III etc, but I noticed type III is rotary press only, but there is offset on the back. I figured that ends it. But I looked at 540a being sold on ebay and I am seeing offset on the back there too. I checked "commonly faked W/F stamps" on Stamp Smarter but this one is not listed. Can someone straighten me out?




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Edited by rlsny - 01/16/2024 5:42 pm

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Posted 01/16/2024   5:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamps are much to narrow because the perfs are clearly counterfeit. I would want to actually see it to say much more, since it might have elements drawn in, or it might have other issues not visible easily from a scan.
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Posted 01/16/2024   5:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed. The holes along the right are larger than on the left. Or placing two scans side by side with the top holes aligned, the gauge does not match left/right:well before getting to the bottom.
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Posted 01/16/2024   6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I see that. I see a PSE certified block of this that clearly has offset on the back. So I'd still like to understand that aspect.
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Edited by rlsny - 01/16/2024 6:15 pm
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Posted 01/16/2024   8:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The PSE certed block is on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175534258500 - offset on the back - can anyone explain that?
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Posted 01/16/2024   8:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Setoff is not a 100% thing. It can occur on rotary stamps for a few reasons including post-production handling.
See here
https://stampsmarter.org/learning/M...methods.html
Note section where it says,

Quote:
Rotary Press stamps were printed but not stacked, the web roll of printed stamps were streamed and dried. They were then streamed again to the gumming process, then dried again. This procedure did not often did not allow for any setoff ink on the underside of the sheets but it is not impossible. If a rotary stamp has setoff ink then chances it picked it up as the gummed stamps were being rolled at the end of the process; resulting in a small amount of ink on top of the gum.
(Emphasis mine.)

My opinion is that given the poor wiping/extra ink shown on the face stamp, it is pretty possible.
Don
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Posted 01/16/2024   9:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I bet if you washed off the gum, the set-off would disappear because it was caused by a collector mishandling sometime in the last 100 years, not a bureau stacking pre-gum.
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Posted 01/17/2024   02:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Question: is that an offset or suffusion?
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Posted 01/17/2024   06:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The ink positions are not the same front and back.
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Posted 01/17/2024   07:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So if my stamp is counterfeit and not just reperfed on one side, how could it have been made? Is there an imperf stamp with that separation. 540 is not listed in the "commonly faked" stamps. Maybe it's is a genuine stamp, but reperfed? Sorry if I'm dragging this out. Just trying to get to the bottom line on this one.
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Posted 01/17/2024   10:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I did my own homework on that question. There is no imperf type III. Nothing is drawn in. I believe it is a legit 540a that has been reperfed on the right. Leaving it there for now.
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Posted 01/17/2024   11:45 am  Show Profile Check 3193zd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 3193zd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just curious what are the dimensions of the stamp image? I do think TyIII but the extra lines in the ribbons are very faint and the top of toga line is not that strong.
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Michael Darabaris
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Posted 01/17/2024   11:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just curious what are the dimensions of the stamp image?


I agree. Also watermark type and direction.
I.e., a full examination.
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Posted 01/17/2024   3:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The pair is type III. The cross hatch pattern in the border is evident in the top border line on both stamps. The cross hatch pattern is only on type III rotary stamps. Type one has three lines of color and type two has four lines. They are not easily seen unless its a worn plate or under inked impression. There is an issue with the perfs. on the pair.


bottom frame line on a #452 showing hints of the type one lines-best example I have. Look between the "T" and "1"


left frame line of a #454 showing the type two lines clearly


File image I have. I think it was a #492 showing the cross hatching.
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Posted 01/17/2024   5:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Mr Gator, seems definitive.
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