Experiences With Requesting Grading Change?

What are your experiences with resubmiting a stamp when you disagree with the assigned grade? What type of evidence would you provide? PF, and in some cases, PSE graded stamps can be seen online. Also, are reviewers' worksheet info public record? I recall that certain qualities not related to centering can ding an otherwise well centered stamp. Thanks.

I talked with Christopher Rupp about this in the past and even he can tell you that grade changes are not going to happen. If you read the catalogs of Siegel, Kelleher, Schuyler etc. you will find no shortage of "we do not agree" or "we cannot understand" when it comes to grades.

As far as opinion notes go this has been discussed ad nauseum. No, they are not seen by the public and best of luck getting your hands on notes for opinions you paid for.

Would be interesting to see Bill Crowe's take on this.

You paid for an expert OPINION. You did not pay for the proprietary information that went into giving that opinion. Which includes the thought process involved in each person giving that opinion.

Three thoughts come to mind:
1. Many collectors cannot get past the idea that grading is more than centering, and more collectors think *their own* material it better than it really is, than the other way around.
2. To help with transparency, it might be good for graders to report the score as an equation: centering - faults + bonus points = final score, so that a beautifully centered stamp with a short perf and with a fancy cancel might get 95-15+5=85. Yes, it would start down the slope of showing the thinking process, but should be fairly easy to implement. That way one can shop for centering alone or for final score.
3. It is always best to discuss a specific philatelic item than a broad, general concept. Please show us what stamp you would re-submit.

I can see (perhaps) the rationale behind not making public all of the details behind a basic opinion as to whether a stamp is genuine or not, but if one is paying extra for a grade, I'm not sure what the big issue is behind a simple disclosure of the breakdown of the elements behind the grade as noted above: centering-faults-plus points.

I gather you don't think the stamp was OVER graded, right? Those stamps would be returned as well, correct?

If I were a grading service I would never change a grade. It would be like admitting my service was flawed in the first place. I'm the expert- no grading changes possible just because you don't agree with my expert assessment.

Keep in mind that grading can be subjective. Also, the major auction houses do not accept my opinion on grading, genuineness, or soundness, so I am not sure that my opinion truly matters. PSE does have a codified listing of qualifications to their final grade, but what is tiny versus small can be in the eye of the beholder. A client recently told me that he would want a certificate for his used Scott 118 only if I called a corner crease tiny. In reality, I thought that the word small was being generous - so no certficate. The major auction houses will only accept my certificate if it agrees with their lot description.

I work differently from the big three (PSE, PF and PSAG). I send my clients a report on my findings (opinion) after viewing their stamps. That report will include words that I intend to put into my final certificate as well as items that I feel will affect the final grade but will not be noted on the certificate (those comments will be placed in parentheses). Items that PSE might feel are "Extremely Minor Faults" and would affect the final grade but not be noted on a certificate I might mention on a certificate. My clients always have the option to say no certificate or a certificate with no grade depending on how they feel about my report.

With the above in mind, I am always happy to take a second look at a stamp and tell the client what I am/was thinking.

I don't understand the forgiveness of these services not providing their background notes. They all use the same standards. The execution is where the differences usually come in. Could someone kindly spell out what part would be proprietary? Is there a special unique machine that one of them had manufactured and the note could give insight into how it works? We know that answer is no. Look at it like a house inspection. Would you accept a report that said "failed" and not much else?

To shermae:

I can only say that I am human and I do make mistakes. I wish I did not, but that is life.

Apparently you did not understand when I wrote "Which includes the thought process involved in each person giving that opinion". And they do not "all use the same standards". For example, the PF will not grade stamps with faults of any kind. They do not "lower" grades because of them, unlike some of the others might. So the difference between "tiny" and "small" does not matter. Faults kill the possibility of a grade, period.

Understood you Bart. My statement was meant for the actual grading process and proprietary information. You need to include the complete post to understand the context. Still no answer to the questions of what is proprietary and why can't backup information be provided.

The issue just came up on a recent auction subtmittal and I'm trying to settle it with them first. I don't want to cast aspersions/call out firms at this point. If things work out, great, if not I'd be glad to share images, etc. here. Just curious if anyone had been through this and what the experience was like. Sorry for being so vague at this point. Thanks for all your views thus far.

All of the action house Terms and Conditions that I remember reading have said that disagreement with a grade on a certificate is not a reason for rejection. Only if the certificate mentions any undisclosed faults will they take it back. I guess I don't understand the scenario here.

Have you considered sending it to a different authority for a second opinion if you didn't like the first?

Apparently you don't. The process itself is proprietary. Since every stamp is different, it involves original thinking on the part of each person who looks at it. That thinking is proprietary in itself. The ability to see minor variations in margin size is an acquired skill, and measurements can be used to confirm those differences. Most collectors do not possess the skills needed to accurately grade stamps or see those differences accurately, especially when looking at stamps they own. The only reason anyone wants to know how a grade was arrived at is when they disagree with it and think it too low. Since most lack the ability to grade accurately, telling the specific process will not change many minds, and will just lead to longer arguments about the grade anyway.

I hope everything does work out for you! Let us know how it goes if you don't mind.