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Auction Lot Gambling Time Once Again.

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 1,752Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6430 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   1:57 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add revenuecollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm posting this prior to receiving the lot in hand, so when it arrives we'll see if I struck gold... or struck out.

I had been watching some lots at the latest Kelleher online-only auction, but due to a time conflict I was unable to be present during the bidding. Nothing was THAT important that warranted my making accommodations, so I just checked in after the fact to see what the results were.

I was somewhat surprised that the following lot was passed at $200.

I contacted Kelleher and asked if they were willing to consider offers. I ended up purchasing the lot at a price that even after 20% BP and shipping still ended up below the original opening bid.

I buy lots like this to hunt for cancels and plate varieties, amongst other things. But there was one particular aspect of the writeup that implies that there MIGHT be more to it than meets the eye. Of course it could be a slip of the keyboard or a mistake on the lotter's part, but it's a gamble I was willing to take.

Can you guess what it was? Everything I saw was shown below; I did not see the lot or ask any questions.

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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10590 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   2:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have to guess.......
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4079 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   6:55 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
and you are ROFL because you were the consignor or what?
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10590 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   9:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No, just because I know why he bought it; it's really so obvious that I have to laugh. But a Non revenue collector might not see it.
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Valued Member
United States
432 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   9:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gvol21 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You've thoroughly stumped this (non revenue collecting) chump!
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
810 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   9:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add postagedueguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


I was at a coin shop one time in my hometown and the dealer was selling
these checks for a dollar each and I didn't really know much about them,
but they looked interesting. There must be 500 or so. So I offered him $50
and he took it.
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Edited by postagedueguy - 02/25/2025 9:34 pm
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United States
5094 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   10:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not a Revenue collector at all, but it looks like an interesting field to get into. I'm sure the statement "mostly Bank Check and Certificate stamps from the First Issue or Battleship series of 1898" is the key phrase. But why ... I'm clueless.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6430 Posts
Posted 02/25/2025   10:17 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You nailed it.

Bank checks are typically found with Scott R5c (2-cent Bank Check blue, CV $0.50), R6c (2-cent Bank Check orange, CV $0.45), and R15c (2-cent USIR, CV $0.25) on them, and to a lesser extent R9c (2-cent Express blue, CV $0.40), and R10c (2-cent Express orange, CV $14.00).

The fact that the describer saw enough "Certificate" stamps to mention it in the listing implies a number of them with R7c (2-cent Certificate blue, CV $32.50) or R8c (2-cent Certificate orange, CV $50.00)

(I'm excluding the possibility of imperf or part perf examples, all of which would be nice to find as well).

It's possible that there is only one or two Certificate examples and for some reason it caught their eye. If that's the case, then oh well, my bad.

The other possibility is that the Certificate stamps are not 2-cent denominations, but rather 5- or 10 cent, meaning that some of the documents are not bank checks but promissory notes or small-format certificates.

Regardless, there's enough possibilities here to make it interesting for a comparatively nominal cost.

Also, both the 2-cent bank check and 2-cent certificate are home to major double transfers (T5 and T7 accordingly), and while the odds are remote at best, one can never tell. As it is, R6c is rife with all manner of minor double transfers, and the 2-cent Certificate has a foreign entry worth looking for...
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1804 Posts
Posted 03/25/2025   1:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How did the gamble pan out?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6430 Posts
Posted 03/25/2025   2:41 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not as I expected, but not a total disaster either.

"The other possibility is that the Certificate stamps are not 2-cent denominations, but rather 5- or 10 cent, meaning that some of the documents are not bank checks but promissory notes or small-format certificates."

This ended up being the case. The entire lot consists of documents from a single company: the Mutual Benefit Life Insurance Company of Newark, New Jersey, running from the mid-1860s into the battleship period.

I've only gone through the battleship era material thus far, and it consists of "Certificate of Loan" documents, loans taken against insurance policies, some of which have secondary taxed transactions on them, which I cannot quite figure out just yet.

What's particulary peculiar are a number of documents written in 1870 and 1871 which have uncancelled 2c Liberty (R152) revenues affixed.... which is odd because that stamp wasn't issued until 1874.

If I just encountered one of these in the wild, my assumption would be that a collector or dealer stuck a revenue stamp on it after the fact to make it more appealing... but there's an entire sequence of 20-30 of these, and the fact that they're included within the much larger business document hoard implies to me that someone at the company thought these transactions needed to be retroactively taxed.

I still need to check the Civil War tax period documents for plate varieties.

So while it's not the gold mine I hoped it might be, there are enough interesting aspects to the hoard that I'm not upset that I bought it.
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Valued Member
United States
101 Posts
Posted 03/25/2025   3:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Shakey 7 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have the same gambling addiction buying up large lots not necessarily revenue stamps. But whatever floats my boat at the time of purchase. My 3 crumb snatchers can miss a trip to McDonalds to support my habit. I don't ask for much. Besides they are always the first ones with their hands out when I win the small lotteries.

The one draw back to buying such big lots if I can really find one is the material that I don't want. Which is where I'm finding myself now. There is so much of the common book stuff I cant even give it away in some instances.

Jeremy
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8399 Posts
Posted 04/11/2025   12:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations Revenue on your purchase . It is more common than you think , that people gamble on purchasing auction lots sight unseen . I done it for many years ,funny thing is that I remember all my good wins and try to forget the losers , but I enjoy the time waiting for the lot yet delivered .

It is sort of like buying a lottery ticket , it is your mindset waiting to the day of the drawing .
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