#17 US

Looking at this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/17-XF-Used-pen-...em588ac49b0e

interesting item.. in the 2011 scott. a pen cancel lowers the price from 280.00 to 140.00


edit: cert says it's black so the price changes form 360.00 to 140.00
amazing what a pen cancel can do...
unless scott screwed up and didn't put the "+" sign in front of the number

Yuck.

No. Not a rare stamp, no reason to buy a pig. Do what I do, wait and save up.

it is not so much as the stamp. I was interested to find out that a pen cancel lowers the value from the base of the stamp.
I would much rather have a stamp that is lightly canceled or pen canceled then obliterated.

<---- AHEM ... Hint Hint Hint



Easy there, Bill. Some of us aren't so averse to pen cancels as you seem to be.

https://goscf.com/t/9866
https://goscf.com/t/7935
https://goscf.com/t/4265

KirkS

[edit to fix link]

And don't forget, Marty is parting with his current collection to go specialize in pen-canceled US classics!

I mentioned before, certain postmaster manuscript cancels on the early Finnish serpentines increase the stamp value significantly.

On Great Britain postage stamps, most pen cancels are actually revenue cancels. The revenue cancels tend to be plentiful, especially on the higher denomination stamps. In general, retail value tends to drop to nearly 10%-20% of catalog because of revenue cancels on early GB.

I wasn't trying to be harsh :)

Pen cancellations, as a general rule, are not desirable and greatly reduce the value of the stamp. An obliterating killer is also not such a nice thing either, and sadly you see those a lot on higher values. I have seen some very attractive pen cancellations, and I recently watched a 12c 61 with a stunning Magenta pen cancel sail way past cat value at an auction and I got beaten out on a cover to Sierra Leone in a recent Kelleher auction that had manuscript cancels.. I am still kicking myself over that. But we're talking about the vast majority, not the exceptional.

That stamp is faulty, has ragged margins and, IMO, an unattractive pen cancel. That's not a tough stamp to find nice, and a MUCH more presentable one can be had for $100-150, I have seen plenty of nice ones sell for that range.

I don't think you were being harsh, billw2, but being realistic.

The great great majority of pen cancels reduce the value of a stamp, not increase. This is true of US stamps as well, although I have heard of some collectors who actually specialize on Sharpied stamps and actively buy them!

But of course, to every generalization there are many exceptions, as KirkS and I have noted. The truly unusual pen cancel, or one belonging to an important postmaster, or one that is dated on an important day in history or dated during an unusual/special time period, can fetch beyond the catalog value, even if the stamp has major faults.

Bill:

I wasn't offended and I'm the first to admit you're correct about how most collectors feel about pen cancels.

But for those of us who collect on a budget, pen cancels can be a blessing -- allowing us to own a stamp that we otherwise might never collect.

When I looked at the stamp, I overlooked the "fault" mentioned in the description, so at first glance, I saw a #17 with decent margins. The 2009 cat value is $350 -- if you subtract half for the pen, then it's $175, so $75 or 40% of that might be considered a reasonable price.

But you are correct about the fault the the ragged edge.

The bottom line of all the discussions we've had here is essentially, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I would add, and sometimes in the wallet

KirkS

Well to me it wasn't even the pen cancel, I'm not averse to them personally, but like I've said... you're SO much better off paying up for a nice stamp and if that means waiting then ya wait. I need 2 stamps for my 1869 set, well, really 3 or 4 because 2 of them I don't like. I need a 15c Ty1, a 90c and I don't love my 24c or my 6c. I'm saving up and waiting until I can buy beautiful ones. If you guys want I can post pics of them...

To me, if I can buy a filler for $75 or a NICE one for, say, $200 then it's a no brainer.. wait a couple months if need be, the stuff is out there. Of course there are exceptions, the Ice House cover being the best example. That cover, as far as covers go, is an absolute pig. One stamp has been replaced, the 90c was torn, it's got a nasty tear and I don't usually love oversized covers.

BUT If I had megabucks and I collected 1869s (I don't and I don't) then I'd pay whatever I had to to obtain it should it come up for sale. Kind of the same with, say, a #78c, Blackish Violet. That's a HUGELY expensive stamp and a truly rare one as well, for that I might compromise. OTOH, I don't think that any of the existing covers are piggy either.

Here's a couple of manuscript cancelled stamps that I own.. I bought the 24c FOR the cancel :)

Nice ones.

How do you think the 3c was canceled? It's not a pen mark nor a stamp. Is it just a 'blob' of red ink? Interesting 'straight edge' on the left side of the ink.