Is This A Third Inverted Jenny Stamp Now For Sale?

I wonder what would happen if someone filed a complaint with the California Attorney General's Office about ebay promoting illegal sales? Especially when they had been told about it and had done nothing to stop it.

You can remove images of a the Confederate Battle flag!

Good one Brian!

I realize that many folks have chosen to take a 'buyer beware' perspective in this issue. They feel that each hobbyist should be well educated and informed before making buying decisions. Certainly some truth in this. But putting aside the fact that becoming well educated and experienced in this hobby might take a year or two; I still do not fully understand how taking a 'buyer beware' perspective helps our hobby long term.

Many of us are sellers. We aren't dealers, but we are sellers. In looking at this issue (the selling of misidentified stamps or those with undisclosed faults and/or alterations with under-described listings) I can't help but feel that my sales have been impacted by this over the last few years. I am competing for the same dollars as these other sellers. I have seen specific offerings, often containing sub-par stamps, that are the same as what I have listed. I have seen several examples where bidding was brisk for a listing (trolling for suckers by starting at $0.01) which contained misidentified stamps or those with undisclosed faults and/or alterations yet my listing generated little interest (even when my price was quite competitive.) I'm sure many of you have experienced this before.

We am also competing, on a larger, long-term level, for hobbyists. If a bad listing discourages a buyer(s) will they stay with the hobby? How would you feel if one of your best customers suddenly got out of the hobby after being taken b one of these bad listings? Is it possible that during the last 5 years this issue has contributed to the decline of the number of hobbyists? (Who can accurately describe the negative impact to philately of many companies promoting gold FDCs as an great investment? We all know it had a negative impact but it is hard to quantify.)
Don

I agree it would be hard to quantify but I definitely think there is an impact. However, I believe that the positives outweigh the negatives in terms of ebay's impact on the hobby by creating a global market for collectors to buy & sell their stamps - I may never have returned to the hobby if not for ebay!


As you stated - no one can quantify the negative impact made in the past - not just by contrived covers and postage investment scams in the 70s, but also by the shenanigans by "reputable dealers" on Nassau street in the 50s & 60s. ebay is just another venue for the shysters to peddle their wares, and I won't let it slow me down!

Brian

And to those who are cringing at my "confederate battle flag" comment, I am merely pointing out ebay's hypocracy of choosing to enforce political dogma instead of preventing fraud - it really grinds at me ...

Brian,
I concur, the internet was a paradigm shift of immense proportions. I also feel that greed and selfishness is something that goes well beyond our hobby and is rooted in human nature. But I was not advocating that online sales go away or that ebay is a 'bad' thing. I was trying to better understand how some folks take the 'buyer beware' perspective and seem to put aside the damage that is occurring to our hobby. Is it legitimate to simply say, "well, stuff happens and not much I can do about it; I arm myself with the info I need to successfully navigate the bad listings and so should everyone else"? Or should we have a bit more ownership in this issue? Frankly fighting this battle is a never ending proposition. It would help if more folks didn't take the 'buyer beware' and felt that it hurt our hobby. Organizations like APS and Linn's could weight in a bit more heavily. (APS is obviously aware of these kinds of issues, they have fingered over 350 people in the last two decades for ethical/disciplinary issues.
Don

All normal bids have been retracted as usual leaving the shilling scumbag as the potential winner.....again ! I really don't know why he bothers.

I sent the seller a message asking if he would send the items to France and I got a curt "No" !

I then asked what stamps he would use when he sends by USPS Media Mail because I prefer stamps on mailings......I did not get a reply !

I don't think there is anyone here who is saying that there is no damage to the hobby due to online cheating. It's happening, and something like it has always been a plague on the hobby. But the question concerning this threat to the hobby needs to be addressed on two fronts: 1. how serious a threat is it, and 2. what response has the greatest probability of success?

1. How serious?
Of all the losses to the hobby in a given year, what percentage are directly attributable to the action of online cheats? Maybe we can't quantify it, but let's get a sense of scale. Is it 75% of the annual losses? Half? 5% How much energy it deserves should be in proportion to how severe it is as a blight on the hobby in relation to other detrimental evils.

To provide a number requires the ability to stand behind it. To leave the number vague is an alarmist tactic. People who don't want to be manipulated tend to object to alarmist appeals.

2. What to do about it?

To maintain the moral high ground, it is enough to warn people about the hazards of venturing into the marketplace without good knowledge of what they are trying to do there. Don't try to buy material that is above your level of expertise. Human nature? Ignoring good advice is not a characteristic of "human nature" it is a characteristic of immaturity.

If you have the time and inclination to help them more than that, then it is also sufficient to say, "I arm myself with the info I need to successfully navigate the bad listings and I am willing to help anyone who might need that knowledge to grow in it."

It is inconsistent to try to address the problem of moral decay with a rules based system, because its enforcement inevitably leads to repression which is a morally unacceptable alternative.

It's unfortunate that with ebay's PR puffery about "protecting the buyer", reality falls far short as these posts about 4 bogus Jennys have proved. I wonder if they are ever going to wake up to the failings of their current system?

I am certain they are aware of the failings but have chosen to ignore it. From an economic standpoint, it probably makes more sense. Ignoring the problems costs money - returns, refunds, lost customers, etc. But doing something about the problem also costs money - staff, relistings, programming updates. The bean counters have merely determined which scenario costs more/less and chosen the cheaper route!

Brian

I clicked the link and it said it was removed.

I am sure the scammer would love to be in Polynesia, but he isn't. His dates don't match up and he is answering questions so quickly it's unreal !
From the very first lot he/she posted there was a rumour going round that this ebay account had been hacked. it would not surprise me. I believe he/she is in the USA.

Many have written to ebay or filed a 'report this item' box. I have done both a number of times and yesterday I got my first reply !



...not so fast pepper ! The ebay reply was asking me to write to them with all the info or to fill out the 'Report this item' section ! ...............exactly what I did to warrant their reply.



I believe it's called 'going around in circles' !

All good fun.
happy Bidding, happy Shilling.......

Has anyone tried this: " ebay has a portal JUST to report suspected sellers of forged stamps at - http://www.ebay.com/scw - there is space for 10,000 characters in your reply, so all the relevant info can be added. Unlike most ebay complaint forms that allow 100 characters etc."