What Are These Late 1800-S Cut Squares?

I believe Mike was referring to the illustration number. U71 and U78 are both 2 cent Washington illustrations.

CATALOG number U71 is a 24 cent Washington. Its illustration number is U22. CATALOG number U78 is a 2 cent Jackson and its illustration number is U24. Mike was talking about the illustration numbers, not catalog numbers.

Having fun yet??

Dan

Maybe a point of clarification(or muddying the waters more):
Mike talks about dies and I talk about illustrations. In Scott's Specialized each die variation is illustrated and assigned an illustration number. So a stamp, cut square etc. has two numbers, a catalog number and an illustration number. With stamped envelopes both sets of numbers begin with "U." If you pick up the wrong column it gets confusing quickly.

Dan

I have two albums with the stamped envelope cut outs in them and quite a few loose,I know this is going to be fun when I start to concentrate on putting them together in the one album .

I am referring to the illustration #'s assigned to the die variations by Scott's.
You may need a Scott's US Specialized Catalog to help with this. On the U71 that is Die 2 has four different paper colors but there is no color keys.

Stationary can drive one crazy with all these subtle variations, if it were a stamp they be assigned a, b, c suffixes to the number.
Then they don't recognized the difference from letter or legal sized envelope.

Mike

My old Scott's Specialized lists white, amber, oriental buff, blue, manilla and amber manilla paper for the U71 die.

Each paper color is assigned a unique catalog number!

Have fun Nuggett!

Dan

What a great conversation to watch unfold.
Please continue because some of us DO,
learn a lot from you are on about and thank you for this discussion.

Aaaaaaaaaggggghh!

And I thought I knew about stamps!
Maybe I'll check out the coin forum.

Marty

Marty,
Don't give up! This is just flyspecking cut squares. I collected this area once. It can get frustrating if you get technical like we are doing here.
You can get a very nice collection without all this fuss.

The reason this is so confusing (at least for me) is the Scott's numbering system in their specialized catalog.

Here is a picture of how Scott's Specialized lists a stamp. (This is from an old SC)



Here's the page we have been discussing:





I had to reduce the images to fit the posting requirements but if you look closely both the catalog and illustration numbers begin with the prefix "U"

It can get messy!

Dan

I have only just started with the cut squares.
I have a green one and a red one
I hope to get more one day and then I will consider the head banging.
Thanks guys

Dan, your explanation, catalog page photos and experierence are helpful
I do like a challenge, so I hope we're not ready to give up yet, even the thought to do so is tempting
I had no idea that this would be so difficult AND educating at the same time.
Back to my photos and more observations.
The trimmed piece has overall heavier features. All the lettering, the sawtooth like oval, "starbursts" above the "TWO" and "CENTS" and the number "2" are uniformly heavier. That would seem to me to eliminate a worn die and lend support that two different dies were used.

Only the outermost ring appears to be equal to or maybe slightly thinner than on the untrimmed piece (not visible from back side photo below, see initial post). The ponytail on the trimmed piece is not as well defined as the untrimmed piece.

Here's the back side, maybe that will give some clues to the mystery. Pay no attention to the paper color and fyi; the embossing appears to be convex but it is not.



I really appreciate everyone's help and comments: you are all great!
Marty

Marty,
Here's my best shot at it. It's neat, concise and probably wrong!

I looked at the possibilities and tried to rule them out one by one. (I always do things backward)
It is one of six possibilities: U70, U71, U72, U78, U79 or U80.
I ruled out U78,79 and 80 because of how the bust points. Your copies appear to point higher.



I ruled out the U70 because of the "G" in "Postage." The U70 looks more like "POSTACE."



Your "G" has a bar.
That leaves 71 and 72. They are distinguished by the ear and mouth design:



To me, the ear pattern on your untrimmed piece looks like a 71. As for the trimmed piece, there do appear to be some differences along the ear and mouth. Another thing to look at is the roundness of the head. The trimmed piece seems to have a rounder head than the other. Maybe that's a 72.

Of course after staring at the screen so long and so late I may be seeing things!

It's been a while since I've looked at cut squares and, unfortunately, I don't have copies to compare.

Hopefully someone with more expertise will come along and settle the matter.

Dan

I do have the scott catalog 2008 it just confuses me sometimes so when this happens I come here and ask what I want to know,and have always gotten an answer and Danstamp if you were around a couple months ago thats all I did was ask question after question,im learning,slowly but surelythis is me alot

Dan, thank you

Well, I sure learned a great deal about this U** stamped envelope cut square. I think I'll enlarge my scan and play around with contrast and brightness to see if that will reveal any more detail.

Marty

I'm going to post one more stamped envelope cut square that surely will be easier to id I think it may be best to start another post with it.

Tina,
I've been collecting for a long time and I'm still learning! For me, that's part of the fun of collecting.

BTW I like your new avatar!

Dan

Marty,
You're welcome. Just don't ask me about paper color!

Dan