White Plains #630 Sheet Question.

I always wanted to ask but keep forgetting to bring it up. The White Plains sheet has a cut corner on the top pane sheet. Taken from Scotts description (The wide margin corner will have a small diagonal notch on the top panes.) I have seen them both ways.

My question is why does it have the notch?

Hi Mac......


Could it have been a paper guide notch ?

Seems like the kind of thing Kim (khj) would have info on.

I was thinking along that line Tom but I have seen them on the lower side of a top sheet . This is what threw me, so now I do not have a clue.

Thanks for the kind words, Tom, but I'm afraid I don't know. I guess this pseudo-expert needs to ask the real experts... however, so far 0 for 1. I'll try to ask a few other experts and let you know if I find out anything, but they are quite busy so those replies will take some time.

Mac, that's really strange to see a notch at the bottom of an upper pane position. I'll have to ask them that question too. However, I wonder if it is an altered pane, cut to remove corner damage?

Figures I would ask a stumper question. LOL. Just one of those things I always wondered about but never asked. No rush but any further info would be appreciated.

Meanwhile, while I await email replies...

k

Expert #2 was very quick in replying. Answer, he doesn't know. However, he does confirm that the clipped corners should ONLY and ALWAYS appear at the top outer corners of the TL and TR panes. So Mac, if you saw a supposed top pane with a clipped lower corner, something got altered; it is not an error.

I did learn that the clipped corners occurred as part of the cutting process; so it is not a paper guide for production since the notch did not exist prior to the printing and cutting. Other than that, so far nobody seems to know why a notch was cut during the cutting process.

k

1775mac
Any chance of a scan of the "Notch"
David (DJD)

Do you mean the unusual "wrong corner" one that Mac saw, or do you mean in general? I can provide a scan of the typical clipped corner in the top pane positions.

Mourning all. My sheet has all four corners so I had to search on the net for examples. First picture is how the top corner should look. (Taken from ebay for information purpose only not for resale).


Top corner posistion.


Cut notch that I have seen a number of these.

Thanks, Mac!

In the bottom scan, the S/S has clearly been trimmed. The selvage should not be "balanced". In this case, the clipped corner is clearly bogus (done with scissors, notice they didn't finish making the cut at the right side -- you can see a single tooth still jutting out, typical amateur mistake). There also appears to be marks from mounting corners in the upper corners.

The top scan is a bit of a puzzle to me. It does seem to contradict the information I was given by the expert, but perhaps I misunderstood his reply. [EDIT: I am puzzled as to why the clipped corner is the inside top corner and not the outside top corner.]

khj, I know it can not be a rarity but it did rise my interest for the question. Actually I have seen a number of these with the lower right corner notched and just could not figure out why.

Just to give you a idea of how my mind wanders what if during the cutting process which put the notch in for the correct ones on the top right. If a stack of sheets were to be inverted say flipped upside down for whatever reason. It would give the same position as the lower right corner.

Anyways back to the original question " Why was it done to begin with?". Just one of those things that I am still trying to answer.


After another minute of thought on your reply the lightbulb went off. Some corner mounts years ago would leave a stain mark and the cut job would explain this one.
The mind is a little slow waking this mourn, hold on while I get another cup of coffee.

The side margin on the lower scan has been trimmed - I daresay that an owner didn't like it looking "off centre" with a wider margin on one side (as per the top scan) and so trimmed it down to make them even. In the process probably trimming off the clipped corner. It actually appears to be a top pane, since the top margin is larger than the bottom. Perhaps having trimmed off the clipped corner they then added their own clipped corner, but got the wrong one? It's a theory anyway.

I'm with khj, from what I've read my understanding was that it was the wide margin, or outside, corner that was trimmed. So you'd expect the left top to be clipped in the top scan. This is only based on what I've read, I have no experience with these sheets (yet .) The ones I looked at on ebay looked right, I didn't see that top scan one.

I wonder if it just had something to do with stacking the sheets after they were cut?

Balf

I've seen a lot of trimmed S/S. There's a reason why Scott often lists the S/S dimensions on the earlier S/S; but even those are only approximate.



That is possible, and what I was thinking as well. That would also mean the clipped corners occurred during the packaging process, not the cutting process.

Which goes back to your original question, why clipped corners to begin with. And to add on to that, if it occurred during the packing process, why only in the top position panes?

We're dying on this one...

Need someone who knows the real answer to chime in.

k

OK, I gave up working on my car and took it to the mechanic. Amazing that a simple fused bolt keeps me from fixing my car. Now it's his problem, until I get the bill.

Meanwhile, instead of getting back to work, I spent time thumbing through my library of print auction/sales catalogs (what's left of them, anyway). It was a lot of fun checking out the many #630 pics and measuring their ratios.

We know for a fact that the clipped corners should ONLY appear on the top pane positions (TL, TR). Also, on all panes, the inside selvage should measure about 1/2", since the gutters were 1" and then cut in half. The bottom selvage on the lower pane positions (BL, BR) should measure about 3/4", that is a shorter than normal outside selvage. All the other outside selvages should measure about 1" on all pane positions.

Given that information, I have come to the following conclusions based on all the pics I've seen, distinguishing between reliable/established sellers and others. Remember this is based on OBSERVATION, not documented production process.

For all panes that have the proper FULL margins, the clipped corner ONLY and ALWAYS on the outside corner in the TL and TR positions. This is what I usually hear, and I am pretty certain now that the statement is correct.

TL and TR position panes that are missing the clipped corner or have them on the wrong corner, I've noticed the selvage is ALWAYS shorter than the full margin, suggesting the original clipped corner has been trimmed off. The trimming is often very close to the amount needed to remove evidence of the clipped corner.

So far, all the panes I've seen that have the clipped corner in the wrong spot, the selvage is not a FULL selvage, suggesting that the clipped corner was added on afterwards. For example, in the top scan that Mac showed (the one that puzzled me because the clipped corner was on the right and not the left) -- the top margin is actually too short. It should be approximately the same width as the left side margin; in fact, short by approximately the amount needed to trim off the original clipped corner. I wonder if someone recognized the top margin had been trimmed, and then altered the S/S by clipping an edge to make it look "appropriate" for top pane position; unfortunately, they clipped the wrong corner. That's my guesswork.

This was a fun exercise for me, as now I have a better working knowledge of what #630s might have been altered.

Of course, why are there clipped outside corners on the top pane positions -- STILL DON'T KNOW!?!

Thanks for the interesting topic. I have only seen the sheets on dealer tables and catalogs. I hope to one day own one. I think they are very special.