Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Authenticating A Scott 519

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 3,194Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1947 Posts
Posted 03/28/2010   08:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rohumpy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I realize that the authentification must come from a recognized certifying body or individual.

My question is this---Since on this stamp what is really being authenticated is the perforation, how on earth can this be done?

The original stamp was produced by the BEP perforating number 344. If an individual were careful enough, couldn't the perforations pass an expert's examination?

I am asking this because I am trying to get up enough gumption to buy one of these oddballs. So I suppose I am asking is it really possible to guarantee the authenticity of this stamp?

There is an auction right now on ebay where the bidding is still under 100 dollars. And no, I am not foolish enough to get into that bidding.
Send note to Staff
Edited by rohumpy - 03/28/2010 09:02 am

Pillar Of The Community
USA
1881 Posts
Posted 03/28/2010   10:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nr-notrare to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rohumpy.......

While it is possible that someone could fake the perfing, it is highly unlikely that the certifying experts would be fooled. When a stamp is sent in for certification it is not sent to just one certifier, several view every item to reach a consensus.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1947 Posts
Posted 03/28/2010   11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rohumpy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have read that the BEP perforaters produce an identifiable characteristic, but if someone were industrious enough, couldn't they replicate the perforations?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
USA
1881 Posts
Posted 03/28/2010   12:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nr-notrare to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ron......

In order to fool the experts each perf and tooth would have to be perfect......how many times could someone produce perfection ?? The odds of someone fooling the experts once are fairly high, but to be able to fool them many times would be astronomical. Re-perfing on most stamps is fairly obvious.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 03/28/2010   3:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
each perf and tooth would have to be perfect.


Quite right, ...but to perfection standards at the time of production. Many fake perforations are detected under high powered magnification when compared to known originals. Many faked perforations are too perfect.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
862 Posts
Posted 04/15/2010   4:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add raywrio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
519 why is the used price higher then the mint price? In the Scotts 2006 catalog the prices are mint/$450-used/$1,100. In my Mystic catalog 2010 the prices are mint/$650-used/$1,375. Both based on carmine. I also see that the Franklin 578 and Washington 579 both have higher used prices then the mint prices

Why is this?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
248 Posts
Posted 04/15/2010   4:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add abohart to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's where I wish I had my Expert's Guide with me at work!
I'll be glad to check on this when I get home if this isn't already answered for you.

-Allen
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 04/15/2010   6:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The original stamp was produced by the BEP perforating number 344. If an individual were careful enough, couldn't the perforations pass an expert's examination?

Obviously, there is a lot more involved in making a fake perforation than meets the eye. Most fake 519s are badly done, as Tom has noted. Forgers rely on collector ignorance or collector "innocence".

However, there are some that are quite well done. I do want to clarify this comment:

Quote:

In order to fool the experts each perf and tooth would have to be perfect.

I know what Tom means, but to make sure there is no misunderstanding for others -- "each perf and tooth" must be "perfect" with respect to the original BEP perforations. Not that each perf/tooth is perfect in terms of production. In fact, perfs/teeth that look too perfect from a manufacturing point of view are usually an instant sign of faked perfs -- because the production characteristics and anomalies of BEP perfs of that era are pretty well studied.

While it is true that BEP made 519 from the some of the same plates used to make 344, one thing that most collectors don't consider is the basic fact that BEP perfs were made with the FULL pane, not a single stamp. Therefore, it is not as easy as one might think, to make perfs sufficiently good to fool the experts. The holes have to be the right size tolerance, the perf centers need to be aligned and basically parallel (not as easy a feat as one might think), the teeth edges need to exhibit characteristics of paper tearing and not cut as with the imperforates.

A good faker doesn't try to make every tooth meet BEP original production specifications. Rather, a good faker will know some of the fundamental documented anomalies (such as known switched pin diameters), and put that in the forgery to make it look genuine. Those are the fakes that are truly challenging to detect!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 04/15/2010   6:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
519 why is the used price higher then the mint price?

The Scott catalog price is for a used stamp showing a proper period of use cancel. Yeah, they fake used #519 from used #344 as well! Many times people think fake mint stamps from other mint stamps, but the warning applies to used stamps also! There are not that many genuine used #344 showing proper period of use cancels.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 3,194Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.36 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05