Prussia 1850 (Michel 4, Scott 5) Colour Problem

I'm wondering if anyone can figure out a solution to this philatelic mystery. This stamp is Prussia 3 Sbg. Michel Nr. 4 - or, rather, it would be, if it were on yellow paper. The two listed varieties of Nr. 4, a and b, are on yellow and corn-yellow paper respectively. However, in this case, the paper is orange (ginger-orange):



There's no listing for this in Michel. It does say that test printings of Nr. 1 were made on a variety of paper types, but there's no information to that effect concerning Nr. 4.

Does anyone have access to other sources of information about Prussian stamps which might shed light on this problem?

Watermark? Reprints (Neudrucke) from 1864 (also used!) and 1873, without wmk, different paper.

I'd guess this is Mi 4b.

I think maisgelb could be considered a shade of orange:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL-Farbe

SG simply calls the two shades of paper 'yellow' and 'orange'.

Wadmalatz, this stamp has the watermark.

nigelc, 'maisgelb' is still distinctively yellow. I don't think anyone would call it orange.

However, thanks for the info regarding the Scott catalogue listing.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, guys!

Here is one version of maisgelb...some swatches tend much more toward orange than this...




Scanners, monitors, soaking...lots of variables potentially at play.

If this stamp was 'maisgelb' or any kind of yellow at all, I wouldn't have posted a query!

It is definitely some kind of tan/orange brown.

It's like the ginger powder used for cooking, or possibly even darker.

It's a little bit frustrating when people don't take your query seriously and suggest that perhaps it's just the regular issue after all. It isn't.

Fair enough, jimjam, but the first steps of stamp i.d. are always to rule out the obvious/most likely, and then rule out the known possibilities. I just can't rule out Scott #5a based on what I see.


[edit: Looking back at the entire thread, I want to make sure the information is clear. nigel posted that Gibbons lists yellow or orange for paper choices. Scott lists yellow (#5) or orange buff (#5a) for paper choices.]

I doubt this will add anything not already thought of and maybe not a good idea on this color paper to begin with. Could long term oxidation be a factoer and would a peroxide soak remove any doubts ? More of a question I guess because I've never attempted peroxide on any colored paper but has helped me on some of the orange shades of the 3 cent Canadian small queens. Don't do it if you have any doubts .

Nitrolures, good point. Here`s a quote from Michel 2005, pointing toward that, the only problem is that it refers not to Mi. nr 4:

"Vorsicht! Die Farbe der Mi nr 1 neigt (guess that means `tends`) zu Farbveraenderungen (Oxydation)! PAPIERFARBEN von Mi nr 2 oft (often), Mi nr. 3 bisweilen (in certain cases) verblasst (blures) oder ausgewaschen (washed)"

So in case of the 1 Sgr (Mi 2) and 2 Sgr (Mi 3) the catalogue referes to the colour of the paper (PAPIERFARBE). MAYBE...maybe it`s the case of the Mi nr. 4 stamp too.

Poole, writing circa 1915 in The Stamps of the German Empire, notes that though the papers were handmade, only the 6pf and 3sgr values show significant shade differences.

He also describes the reprinting of other stamps of Prussia done in 1873, where new watermarked paper was made using the original molds...by 1915, the original yellow paper had "now mostly changed to a pale grey, sometimes with yellow or pinkish spots, owing to some chemical reaction."

Food for thought.

Consulting older catalogues!!Gebrueder Senfs illustrierter Postwertzeichen-Katalog 1914 (p.840)(numbers are different! nr. 1 is Mi. nr. 5 from 1856 4 pf, so in this case Mi. nr 4 is Nr. 5): "Ausser hellen und dunklen Abtönungen kommen bei Nr. 3-4 (Mi. nr. 2 and 3) durch Zersetzung (to fall apart) der Papierfarbe entstandene Verblassungen vor."--- Too bad it refers not explicitly to Mi nr 4 (3 sgr)
The 1873 issues -4ND II.- (indeed with wmk)paper colour according Mi is `türkisgrau'.

The stamps of the German empire
by Bertram William Henry Poole

Amazon sells a paperback "digitized and reprinted from the collections of the University of California Libraries" for $10.
Luckily you can download the PDF for free from
http://www.hathitrust.org/
along with millions more.

Could it be a forgery, because the side designs don't match up with the real stamp ?Let me put up example why I think its a forgery .

Here are my copies of the stamp.

posted scan-

For the 3sgr criss-cross background my ancient Gibbons clearly states

#7 3sgr black/orange
#8 3sgr black/yellow

The orange is priced roughly 4x the yellow