Help Identify The Type And The Stamp Please.

Based on the middle of the right ribbon illustrated in the following link, It looks like a type I or Ia to me. But how about the outline of the button? And I'm not sure how to count the joined lines left to the sideburns. How many of them are joined?

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa..._03main.html

If it is type I, Its either 442 or 449. But I couldn't see the watermark. The original owner identify it as 487 type II. Is it really a type II still?

At first sight it also appears type I to me, and it seems to be setoff on the back? Then it's flat plate 442. Note, that the 449 is rotary and as such a bit taller (22.5mm). You could check both things again.

But I would also be very interested by other opinions here as some of the areas seem to be type I (like the weak toga rope), some type II (like the vertical line at the sideburn). And even type III, if that is a very weak second line in the right ribbon. So how does all this work together? (Type Ia does note exist on coils, I think.)

Type I FP

If it is flat plate, then you have bigger problems. Flat plate coil perforations are randomly aligned, rotary press coil perforations are aligned between rows.
Don

IMO - this is a type II stamp which makes it a rotary and in this format it is Scott 487 and should not have a watermark.

It is not a 449. In addition to having the wrong shade and appearance, the lower of the two hairs to the right of George Washington's ear is almost as long as the top hair which rules out type I and would make the pair type II. A much better image or direct examination would be required to fully rule out type III. Individuals who guessed that the pair could be flat plate have already lost their way.

Thanks for your opinions. Since I couldn't see any watermark, I would tend to believe that it is 487 as originally described by the previous owner. Although a few features fit type I more than type II (such as feature 3,4,5 in the link).

I have lost my way.

@rogdcam

You are funny. LOL. But seriously, the pic 3,4,5 really look more like Type I than II.

Hi Tang - I voted for Type I but now I am unsure of my judgement and am not sure that I can live with the possible failure on my part.

The right side, about two thirds of the way down of last enlarged illustration in the original post shows a pattern of lines under the ear characteristic of type II. The three horizontal lines to the right of the gap under the ear are offset from the two lines to the left (looking at the extreme right edge of the image). A type I rotary will show a larger gap and three lines on the left and the right more nearly aligned end-to-end. On the other hand, a type III rotary will show a minimal gap with the lines almost joined. The gap can be found directly under George Washington's ear. It is unfortunate that the "ear gap" isn't called out more clearly by 1847usa and other sites. This test is often definitive when poorly printed type III stamps with enough lines missing to resemble a type I are encountered.

@cfrphoto

Thanks. How do we explain the feature 3,4,5 in 1847usa website? These features do point to type I. Especially the middle of ribbon (feature 3).

Tang, Look at the post on the bottom of the first page of this thread. I posted some information and scans regarding some differences between T-I, II & III that may or may not be helpful for you. Also, I don't really like the perfs on this pair--they seem to wonder. Look at the spacing between the image border-line and the 6th. perf. on the top row of the first stamp; it's very close compared to others and it doesn't look like the other perf. holes are in-line with each other to me on all the rows. Could be just me...

https://goscf.com/t/42370

Ill add this identifier to the 1847usa site when I get some good images of the lines.
Don

@51studebaker

Are you the author of 1847usa? If yes, how would you think about this stamp? Why the feature 3,4,5 in 1847usa tend to lead us to think it is a type I? Thanks!