Need Help With Plating, Type 1, 1857 1c

Must be either 21R, 41R or 61R12, have ruled out 81R and 91R, without marks in the "O" of ONE. 21R, 41R and 61R all have similar marks in the "O" of ONE, but 61R has the blurs.

It's patients like this one that are very difficult for me-- when there are multiple possibilities due to the plate marks, but something is missing for the best match.....and of course there are none of the #1R positions on Doporto's site to help me here.

Blurs are there for 61R, but the Dot in Ornament R is not there. On the top, there is a possible match for the mark in "G" of Postage, but not in "A". I think that 61R is the best match, but just thought I'd ask the experts. Hope that the image is large enough:



Thanks so much for the help!
Ray

I'm inclined to favor 61R as well.
I found 81,91,21 and 41R at Siegel, and no dice on any of those for a match IMHO.
The blurs seem right for 61R.

Thanks Tx...

You guys have mentioned Siegel a few times, and I keep forgetting to look there for images when Doporto isn't there.....

Funny, I've got a pile of 1c'ers, imperf and perf that I just wish there was a way to put them in front of a bunch of other platers, better than I am, and see what we could all find. I think there's a type III there, and about 20 Va's that I just haven't been able to pin down. Oh well, I'll get them at some point....

Thanks for your help!
Ray

Well, Deep Cert has spoken and found us lacking

Actually, plate 12 is really hard to plate. I have never heard of anyone who was actually really good at plating material from it.

Anyway, Deep Cert says this is position 21R12.

Deep Cert:
"The posted stamp is actually 21R12, which also has that blur off the left plume. Problem is Neinken did not show it on his mat. Here's my copy of 21R12 for comparison."




Deep Cert:
"61R12 has a very large guide dot inside ornament R, as shown in Neinken. Attached is a scan of orn R from a copy of 60R12. Neinken shows similar dots on eight other positions from Plate 12. Plate 11 also has some of these."




"Also note the weak right plume on 21R12 as shown in Neinken. The posted stamp has this feature covered with cancel, unfortunately."

And I'm going to post this quote, also from Deep Cert, to illustrate some of the complexities with plate 12. I think its revealing:

"I hate plate 12. My collection of them fits on one album page, mostly centerlines. I have scans of close to 100 plate 12 stamps I can't plate. "

Question-

With a great many of that era's stamps existing in mint og form as remainders from supplies in the South, where are the plate 12 1 cent stamps? Should not there be more of these than say the plate 10 scott 24?

The plate 12 EKU is in Jan 1861, while Plate 10 is about 7 months earlier, I believe, in 1860. That is a significant differential. The late arrival of Plate 11 & 12, relative to the end of the 1857 issue contracts certainly put a bit of an upper limit on how many stamps would get printed from them.

Also, both plate 11 and 12 had major quality problems. Just take a look at stamps from them, and that's kind of obvious. I think that clearly was a limiting factor for Plate 11 -- really bad quality. In fact, one wonders if they got started with plate 11, and after printing some from it, then decided to make plate 12 to take the place of plate 11. They still had the Ty V plates around and were no doubt using them as well.

I suspect the plate 11/12 plates may well have come about as part of getting ready for a bid for the next postal contract.

Tx, thanks so much for your help and more importantly, all of the knowledge you've shared with all of us.....please keep posting!

And Mr. Deep Cert, thank you also!
Ray